Ashley Isles Chisels
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Does anyone own the Asley Isles Mk2 bench chisels? Do you use them with a mallet? If so, for what (dovetails? mortises?) and do you have trouble?
I’m thinking of getting some, but saw something that hinted they were for hand use only. So, I asked the manufacturer, and they said, “no mallet.” That ought to end it, but I have the feeling maybe they are being overly cautious so I want to know what people are actually doing. These have very fine lands, so perhaps they really are delicate.
As an aside: Years ago, I bought a few Lie-Nielsen chisels and really, really regret it. I think A2 steel for a chisel is on the far side of stupid. Don’t get me started on the handles. Good thing I don’t have a strong opinion about them….
Hi Ed,
They are fantastic chisels. Very nicely balanced and the side bevels allow you to get into corners well.
I use them all the time with a mallet and have not had any issues. Dovetails, mortises etc.
Iām careful when levering a mortise with the 1/4ā
Iād say go for it!
Paul
20 April 2018 at 3:26 pm #529987I own a small set of them and am happy with them. At first, it seemed as though the edges were very brittle, but after a few sharpening/grinding sessions they have turned out to be fine. I think the brittleness was due to surface defects leftover from the hardening/tempering process. I also use a mallet with them but Iām always pretty gentle with any bench chisel. I totally agree with everything prbayliss says here.
Iām curious that the manufacturer says not to use a mallet with the MK2s. Ashley Iles also make a more delicate set of dovetail chisels. They canāt suggest not to use a mallet with those?
Iāve used those for about 10 years. I go quite lightly with a mallet with them though.
Paul
Another Ed — welcome!
I think A2 is great steel for chisels, among the best choices. I have a couple of LN A2 chisels and love them, and one Blue Spruce A2 chisel which is great as well. I wonder what could have happened to give you such a bad experience with them, for me they’ve been perfect.
To your question, AI chisels are great, I own 3 of them, and think they are among the best values in chisels anywhere. O1 doesn’t hold an edge quite like A2 in my unskilled hands, but perhaps you’ll have a different experience. As for using a mallet, I definitely use one with my AI chisels. I have noticed that old-school British mortising involves hitting the chisel with a fair bit of force, so perhaps AI was being cautious. If you mortise in the Paul Sellers style (modest strikes on a bench chisel, removing only 1/8″ or so each pass), I think you’ll be fine, as I have been. If you bring that mallet down with the force to drive a pigsticker mortise chisel 1/4″ deep into white oak, then maybe that’s a different story.
Also, while bubinga is really hard, there are still a number of lignum mallets out there, as well as many made from various metals, so perhaps AI were concerned about striking their handle with a mallet made from a harder material, which over time will obviously damage the handle.
As you watch all of Paul’s videos, keep an eye out for the distinctive AI bubinga handle. Paul uses AI chisels from time to time, so perhaps you can tell the rest of us if Paul has ever used a mallet in one of his videos on his AI chisels.
This all sounds promising.
Just to confirm- When you say you’ve used a mallet, this has been in hardwoods such as oak and maple?
Did you find the hollowed backs to be okay? Some companies over polish their backs and end up rounding over backs. Did they avoid that error? Does the hollow in the back go so close to the working edge that the chisel will have a limited lifetime?
Hi Ed,
I’ve used them on Walnut, Cherry, Maple, very shallow mortices in hickory. I’ve not used them in oak, so I can’t speak to that, however coincidentally I Will be cutting dovetails in oak for drawer sides in the next week or so and I plan on using them for that without hesitation.
I probably wouldn’t do any serious mortising in oak with them. I’d probably go for a sash mortice chisel there.
The hollowed grind on the back is along the length of the chisel and it’s very slight. If you place the chisel back on a stone it will contact two points along the chisels length. I.e. one point will always be the tip of the blade. I.e. no matter how much shorter they get due to sharpening, the back at the tip will always be the point that contacts the stone, so the back at the tip can always be flattened. But again it’s a very very slight hollow. Let me know if this doesn’t make sense and I’ll try to explain or get a photo.
One thing that I have had is the brass ferrule comes lose in the winter. I fixed it with a tap with a center punch.
They cut these dovetails recently.
Edit: Added a picture of what I mean with the hollow.
Paul
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You must be logged in to view attached files.@prbayliss Thanks! If they can survive hickory, they’re durable.
@etmo The reason I dislike A2 for chisels is that they are too hard to sharpen. I sharpen chisels frequently and seem to adjust the bevel angle or adjust the squareness of the edge. In the A2, this takes forever unless you go down to a coarse grit, but if you do that, it then takes a long time to get the scratches out.Here’s an example, and is somewhat the cause of my quest for replacement chisels. My LN are lightweight, which I like for dovetails. I decided I wanted to shallow out the bevel angle. Grind grind grind. Switch to 120 grit plate. Grind grind grind. Switch to next plate to get scratches out. Grind grind grind. All this was done with a guide so that I could work quickly. After playing this game for a bit, I tried an experiment and grabbed an old junk Marples chisel and went at it with the 120 grit plate to change the bevel from 30 ish to 25 ish. No guide. In a few minutes, the bevel was down to 25. In a couple minutes I got the scratches out on the next stone. Within 5′, 10′ max, I was done on the strop. I’ve got half an hour in on the A2 and it’s not good enough. If you don’t look closely, you might be happy, but it’s really filled with scratches.
Let’s contrast this with a different scenario….using a grinding wheel. If that’s one’s approach, then you can put the A2 on the grinder and in a few minutes, or few seconds for a touch up, be back to a concave bevel. In a few moments on a plate or waterstone, you’d have a polished tip. I can see that working for someone, but it’s not how I work. I’d rather have the O1 and frequently go back for a couple licks on my superfine, a few passes on my strop, and that’s it.
A also don’t think one should risk cut feet and legs, which was nearly the case many times with those stupid socket handles until I glued them on with West Epoxy. That’s not the A2. That’s the dumb handle. I really regret those LN A2 chisels.
@ed — is that you in the first post as well? I thought it was some other ed, since it didn’t have (and still doesn’t have, at least in my browser) the “@ed” text under your name, as your subsequent posts in this thread have
Anyways, yes, have used them with a mallet in white oak a number of times, hard rock maple a couple of times, walnut, cherry, sapele, all the usual suspects.
Agreed on the work involved in removing large amounts of A2, and quick re-sharpenings along with fast angle changes in any steel, are the gigantic plus with hollow grinds. Even if you don’t like powered grinders, or don’t want to spend $150 for, say, a Chinese Tormek copy, you can buy a hand-powered grinder, install a nice Norton 3x wheel and Bob’s your uncle. Much harder to burn an edge (although still very possible), and still very effective. Re-sharpenings become far quicker operations, and stropping in between sharpenings is 30 seconds, tops. I use hollow grinds for router plane blades, too — Vic Tesolin has a video on the Derek Cohen method for getting a hollow grind onto a router plane blade using a drum sander in a drill press. That makes it easy to keep your router plane blades as sharp as your chisels or plane blades, and just as quick to sharpen (except for the LV 1/2, which are already pretty easy to sharpen, but it still makes it quicker to sharpen those).
Your posts suggest to me you spend quite a bit of time and effort keeping your tools nice and sharp, and I really think hollow grinding would be a big plus for you. As an added bonus, hollow grinding makes it much easier to sharpen freehand, and IIRC you have that skill set in your bag of tricks.
Anyways, my LN handles were loose when they arrived, but I used their suggestion of a little light adhesive and a quick couple of raps and they never came loose after that. I would freak if one of them fell out of the socket and down onto my feet, I can see why that is so vivid in your memory. Luckily there are lots of other excellent chisels in the world!
Also, the backs of my AI’s are similar to what prbayliss drew, and I don’t find it an issue, although I can’t say there aren’t situations where it would be an issue. The front 35mm or so is dead flat, then a very minor hollow for maybe the same 35mm, then flat again.
@etmo I think you’re seeing that first posts in a thread show up differently for some reason. If you click on the poster’s name, though, it will tunnel back to show the @whatever name.
Thanks for the suggestions. When I freehand something that’s been hollow ground, it obtains a convex bevel in about a minute. I don’t do the “balance on the two lines” thing with O1. For A2, I’m starting to consider it, but more likely I’m going to ditch the A2, at least for chisels. I only have one plane that is A2.
@prbayliss Dumb question: With the hollow running as in your drawing, do you put as much of the back of the blade as possible on the stone when working the back, or do you just put the last, say, 1/2″ on?
I fear that Iād be wearing away the middle of the chisel otherwise.
@prbayliss That’s exactly what I was thinking and why I asked. Also, if your stone isn’t flat, you’ll change the hollow, for better or for worse.By the way, that’s a beautiful bit of walnut you showed and some beautiful dovetailing!
I was deliberating between the AI butt chisels, which would be more comfortable for dovetails, and the regular Mk2 bench, which would be better for paring, but @etmo may have gotten me to retain my LN as my dovetailing chisels, which means the Mk2 bench/cabinet will give more use. That’ll probably change the next time I sharpen the LN A2’s, though. : – )
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