Back Saw
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23 February 2015 at 3:52 am #124973
I’m a novice just getting into this stuff and I’m looking for my first ever back (tenon / dovetail) saw.
I have read on Paul’s blog that the lower 11-13 TPI/PPI is OK for tenon cheeks but not good for tenon shoulders.
What would you suggest?
It seems something 10″ or 12″ in the 14-16 TPI/PPI range, rip cut, is what would be needed to handle tenon shoulders, tenon cheeks, dovetails and general saw work. I can’t really get 3-4 back saws right now, just 1.
I have looked on eBay and can’t find much in this range from makers I know to be reputable. I looked at some modern makers and everything seems to be xcut sharpened or 13TPI rip.
Any thoughts / ideas?
My advice is to get the 9″ “dovetail” saw by Veritas. It is about $70 in the US.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=64007&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1This was the first hand saw I bought and I haven’t regretted the decision. I have bought others since: a 12″ and a 16″ back saws and then panel saws and large saws.
This would do you for making boxes, small joinery and will do the rips on tenons and will crosscut the shoulders. When crosscutting, if you cut along the shoulder with a knife, you won’t get a ragged cut. Note: Small joinery would include most of the joints in the videos on this site: The tool chest, stool, dovetail boxes etc. You’d need a bigger saw for bookcases and the like, but I suggest learning to walk before you can run.
I was in the same boat about a year ago and spent a lot of time researching how to file vintage saws and what each saw manufacturer makes. I could write a thesis on fleam, rake, sloped gullets, filing etc. Good stuff to know, but nothing compares to getting to your bench and cutting would to really educate you on what is necessary.
Start small and work from there. One decent saw will help you learn what sharp is and how a saw should operate properly. Once you have the one good saw, you can add to the pile. Buy some files and then get yourself a 14″ or a 12″ and sharpen it up.
By the way, I thought I’d need a 16″ or 18″ beast of a back saw to cut large tenons for benches and tables so I got one. Then I learned on this site that you can use a chisel to cut tenons by splitting them, so just know there are ways around most problems.
23 February 2015 at 3:09 pm #124995Forgot to mention, I really just can’t stand the look of the Veritas moulded spines… it just looks so plastic-y even though it’s not….. 🙁
23 February 2015 at 3:51 pm #124997Veritas is a great saw. Its a bit “un cool” since everyone has them and its not vintage. They would be great even if it was more expensive. I find them to be lighter than my vintage ones, or maybe my vintage ones have a less balanced hang. The saw plate is thinner than, my vintage ones. My vintage gent saw, which was made for dovetailing, has the same thickness of the carcase saw. (I borrowed some calipers.) I have even dovetailed with the carcase saw! Some time I will probably get a dovetail one.
23 February 2015 at 6:11 pm #124998I know, I know. I just love the look of wood and steel in my shop and when I look at the black moulded spine I get this sick feeling inside. I know it’s not plastic. It’s not nostalgia. I’m 33. Hrmph.
Well, you could get a regular saw off Ebay and fix up the handle to make it pretty.
Here is a 14 inch saw that was ugly and is a little less ugly now. I cut a fishtail into the handle and carved a lamb’s tongue.
A 12 or 14 inch saw are good all-rounders. Around 12 or 13 ppi are good for general work. They might be a bit slower for tenon cheeks, but so long as you’re not in a race you should be OK.
I have a post on this board showing a dovetail saw I made from spare parts. This is something you could do too when you get a bit of practice.
I still think a Veritas saw is good to start. You could resell it when you get your dream saw.
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.I have the 14″ backsaw from grammercy tools, and the 9″ veritas dovetail saw (14tpi rip). I really like the veritas, it fits my hand almost perfectly, is well balanced, and just nice to use.
The Grammercy backsaw is also very nice, it comes at 13tpi and I sharpen it as rip like paul recommends and it works fine. The plate is highly polished which i enjoy (you can look at the reflection to keep the saw square) and it has a tapered blade and is very thin. I use this for most things and the dovetail saw for dovetails.
As jude says you can simply use the veritas dovetail saw for a lot of stuff, but you won’t have enough depth of cut to saw many tennons. You can saw the tennon shoulder then split down with the chisel (my preferred method anyway) so you could get away without having the larger saw for some things.
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