Bevel edge chisel questions
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- This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 2 months ago by Eric Noble.
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4 February 2018 at 12:14 am #461484
So, starting out in woodworking not too long ago I bought a new set of Irwin chisels. After using them for a while and watching a lot of masterclasses videos I am starting to realize that the side bevels only go so far and then become flat-sided.
I have had trouble with bruising wood while dovetailing, and my main question is, are these acceptable for use in dovetailing or do I need to get real full bevel edge chisels?
Alternately, maybe they are just not sharp enough? I sharpen with diamond plates up to fine grit.
I pretty sure your chisels are real. Maybe I’m not following what you’re saying? Do you not think you are using notmal chisels? The bevel that matters is the one you use on the cutting edge (not sure what the side bevel would be for). Irwin chisels should be perfectly good (that’s what I use). Perhaps you can post a picture to clarify your point?
If you’re relatively new to woodworking and having issues with chopping dovetails, I bet it is probably a sharpening issue, not a tool issue. Have you tried stripping after you sharpen? Are you getting a burr when you sharpen (to make sure you are actually refining the edge and not just abraiding some steel along the bevel? Have you checked your sharpening angle? …
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by David B.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by David B.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by David B.
4 February 2018 at 3:09 am #461557I see there are a couple of Irwin, Irwin-Marples, and Irwin “Workman” chisel models.
Maybe if you post a picture. — especially from the side.
Paul has a blog post on this. ( read all the comments)
https://paulsellers.com/2012/10/irwin-chisels-not-the-same-as-marples-of-old/But your problem may be the grind of the main bevel that is an issue, you might want a shallower angle grind to get in the corners.
Newly-designed Bevel-Edged Chisels sold today DO tend to have that thick edge.
It makes them stronger and less likely to fracture when used for mortising. More of a hybrid design. If you were for e.g. fitting a lock and needed a mortice and striking-plate recess, you wouldn’t bother changing chisels.The distinction between Bevel, Firmer, and Mortice Chisels has blurred somewhat.
Vintage Bevelled or expensive ones would be thinner at the edges, but you run the risk of damaging them when mortising, especially if you twist them.I use a secondhand set of Bevel-Edged Stanley 5001’s. Blue plastic handle. Cheap on eBay. Like yours, they’re thin at the tip where you want it to be, and taper in thickness towards the handle. They’ll cope with rougher-handling and careful levering. You have the fine tip for dovetails and if you chisel much deeper, the thicker sides resist twisting, preserving the leading edge.
And a set of Footprint Firmer Chisels for chopping mortices. Black/yellow wooden handle. Cheap on eBay. Not as robust as purposely-designed Mortice Chisels, but somewhere between Bevelled and Mortice. Mortice Chisels aren’t really needed so much now, we’re not chopping into oak doors these days.
I agree with @Larry, adjusting your grind-angle may solve this. If you’re cutting the really really steep dovetails, or half-blind dovetails, perhaps consider buying a specific Half-Blind-Dovetail Chisel or grinding the side-edges of one of yours.
4 February 2018 at 5:33 am #461612Rather than grinding the side bevels, it might be easier to grind he back, depending on your chisel
I’ve made a couple thinner on the coarsest diamond plate.
Takes a while.I am starting to realize that the side bevels only go so far and then become flat-sided.
That’s normal.
I have had trouble with bruising wood while dovetailing, and my main question is, are these acceptable for use in dovetailing or do I need to get real full bevel edge chisels?
Where is the bruising? Is it in the very corners of the sockets for the pins? Along the whole vertical wall? If it is in the corners, and if you are picturing that a sharp-edged chisel drives down into that corner, I think you have the wrong picture. The saw kerf gives some relief for the thickness of the chisel edge. If needed, you can clean up the very corner with the tip of the blade, actually the corner of the tip of the blade. Anyway, I suspect you have a picture that the chisel is driven into the corner and, if there is a side bevel, you can’t get all the way in. As you explore more, you’ll see it isn’t really a problem. I’d look towards your sharpening and explore some more by cutting some more dovetails.
Woodworkers were cutting dovetail joints long before beveled edge chisels became available. They used flat sided firmer chisels, presumably cleaning up the corners as Ed suggested, using a narrow chisel held at an angle. (This would work best with pins wider than those currently in vogue.)
Dave
5 February 2018 at 4:01 am #462192Thank you, I think I am figuring out that the problem is with the novice woodworker not the tool! I am sure the chisel is fine and I am not sharpening it enough!
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