Finding a decent tenon saw
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I love restoring tools. I love woodworking more. My backsaw arsenal is quite embarrassing. I’ve recently realized that my priorities are backwards and I’m spending too much of my precious time restoring tools (sometimes quite badly). I’ve also realized recently that I have no idea what a properly tuned saw ‘feels’ like. I’m like a kid trying to tune a Porsche when I’ve never driven anything more agile than my mom’s minivan.
Where can a guy find a properly tuned, high quality tenon saw akin to the saws that Paul uses? I’d love to splurge and buy one to fill a large gap in my arsenal. I can then decide if I’d like to continue the hunt-derust-restore cycle, or if I would be happier saving my pennies and letting others do the work.
What are your thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas? Keep in mind, that my two backsaws are poorly made Stanley miter box saws from the 70s. I can’t find any decent backsaws around here and I feel way out of my league hunting on eBay.
I wish someone had a service that just sold restored quality saws… Unfortunately I can’t find anyone online that I’d consider ‘reasonable’.
Nate
7 January 2015 at 9:39 pm #123222Veritas carcass saws are nice. I have the cross cut and rip but I don’t use them too much. I have too many saws! I feel guilty not using them, they feel great in the hand, and work great. The price is great too. I think I will try using the crosscut one more. I normally just use a rip, but will go back to the 2 different to see if it makes any difference. If you want a vintage they can get pricey for a refurbished one, or you may need to send them out to get refurbished. I have purchased some things from The Best Things, and he is trustworthy. If you see a vintage on ebay ask the seller questions. It probably wont be sharp, you could always send it out to get sharpened I did that once. Just make sure its straight.
Nate, I’ve been keeping my eye on eBay and lately your not going find a decent tenon saw for less than a hundred dollars, usually more. It’s beyond stupid… So that leaves you with the option of new, you can go the route of Veritas which are decent saws at a good price. Then there is the saw makers like Gramercy, Wenzloff etc. these cost big dollars be warned. However, lie nielson tenon saws are about the same price as you’d pay for a decent eBay saw.
My advice would be to look at veritas.
+1 on Veritas.
A 12″ rip carcass saw is $79 before tax/shipping. This is value for money to me.
Your next option is to go buy something more expensive that has an arguably prettier handle.
Or, seeing as you’ll have to learn to sharpen anyways, you can get a $30-$40 saw on Ebay and sharpen it up.
You could even try Craigslist or a resale shop.
I was in your situation about this time last year; looking at every website and adding up the prices, weighing options etc. I went and got the Veritas dovetail saw and got a couple of old saws from Ebay and local stores.
With one decent saw you’ll be able to know what sharp is like so that you’ll have a frame of reference for sharpening others.
I’ve since gone and picked up a load of hand saws for cheap and have fixed them up individually.
If you are really stuck, Home Depot has an $8 mitre back saw. The teeth are just punched in, but it will work in a pinch. I have one and will file the teeth off and cut in some new teeth to suit me.
So, again, get a Veritas: either the carcass or dovetail.
If you don’t like your Veritas after a while, you could always sell it off for about 2/3 the price on the auction site.
Nate,
No argument on the Veritas recommendation, I’ve seen nothing but good reviews on them.
However my personal taste runs more toward the traditional, and so:
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/carcass-saws/carcass-saws-carcass-saw-?node=4146
I don’t think you’ll ever regret it.
I agree that it’s about what you’d pay for a good E-bay find and you’ll know that it’s a good saw.
Best,
Craig
Helping folks onto the “slippery slope”. 🙂So, it sounds like the consensus is that eBay is a great way to find vintage tools that need some love. Veritas is about the best ‘affordable’ saw that behaves like a high end saw. Lie Nielsen is a step up before you get to the boutique saw makers which start to get a bit insane. eBay saws are great if you know how to tune them, but a deal is a deal for a reason.
I’m going to be cross referencing the offerings of Veritas and Lie Neilsen with an email I got from Paul a few years ago. I suspect I’ll stay at the Veritas level if their offerings match my workflow. Maybe I’ll ask for a Lie Nielsen next Christmas (or maybe just a box of saw files so I can get into the restoration game).
Thanks for the help folks!
Nate
8 January 2015 at 3:37 am #123230Well there is one other option.
Make it!!!
Goto the big box and buy a sheet rockers taping k if. Its is spring steel, low grade take the handle off. You now have a saw plate. Cut and set teeth, make a handle. You now have a saw that will cut wood. Not a great saw but it works. Now go buy some decent steel and make a GOOD saw.
Frankj9 January 2015 at 4:10 pm #123296I have the Veritas saws as well and they have performed well. When I took Paul’s 9-day class in NY each of his benches was equipped with the Veritas saws. You can do quality work with these. That being said I have recently acquired the Dozuki ‘Z’ saw, and that saw my friends is the best I’ve used for cutting dovetails. It is incredibly sharp and remains so; it has a very thin kerf and once you have used it a bit I think you will love it. Also very affordable on Amazon.
9 January 2015 at 5:21 pm #123302I never got into the Japanese tools. I like the western better. My Veritas carcase saw seems to have a thinner plate (and kerf) then my disston dovetail saw (with little to no set). I know a machinist and should measure them with one of his calipers. I think I will go back to just using my two Veritas saws. I normally just use a rip but will experiment with cross and rip for a while. I think the need for cross and rip is overkill but I will go back to it to experiment.
One more option you might consider is making one entirely from scratch, from these guys. These guys are the only place I know of that sells you a genuine folded brass or steel back. They also sell pre-punched saw plates, and also split nuts. Their prices seem to be reasonable to me at a glance, but that’s up to each person’s wallet I guess.
One thing that I’m realizing is that I prefer a relatively heavy back on my tenon saw. That’s the only reason that I don’t prefer my Veritas saw over my steel back disston. The veritas is noticeably lighter.
9 January 2015 at 8:41 pm #123311I had the same idea about the lightness of the veritas. Thats why I used the others. Now after going back to the Veritas I’m not so sure if I believe it anymore. Long story short for the original post..if the choice is between Veritas or an expensive premier saw…go with the Lee Valley. Especially if you are not sure what you want or like.
Making a saw, either from a kit or from scratch, has been on my bucket list for awhile now. Unfortunately, I have the same problem as restoring a vintage saw… I have no idea how a quality saw should ‘feel’ in the hand and in the wood. As such, I would be largely flying blind.
Once I have some experience, I will begin restoring or making and when I get a better saw than my current ones I’ll simply sell the previous set. At least that is the plan.
Nate
10 January 2015 at 12:41 am #123323Hi Nate
Fitting a saw? It’s not a shoe there is no size 91/2 .. you buy a saw if you donT care for the cut or the feel of the handle, you change it and try again..
As for getting the plates from tgia they are very good,you can have a great saw with there parts but it§ no different than buying a saw if you like it good if you don’t change it or buy another I have a gents saw the handle is very thin, my hands don’t bend much so it didn’t fìt, I cut the handle off and made a new handle it ? Fits the blade stinks so file it off and cut new teeth
IT IS ONLY HARD IF YOU Believe ITS HARD,,,!!!!
FÅ•ankjHi Nate,
I know what you meant when you said you didn’t know what a decent saw was supposed to feel like… Personally, I got really lucky. About a year and a half ago, I found a like-new Lie-Nielson dovetail saw for about $50 less than retail. I was quite happy with it as I started the projects in this course. Then, a couple of months ago, I found a R. Groves & Sons dovetail saw on eBay that looked to be in decent shape. When I won the auction (at a very reasonable price) and did what minor cleaning was necessary, I sharpened the saw using Paul’s method. Long story short: after using the Groves saw one time, I was so pleased with how it cut that I sold the Lie-Nielson saw on eBay for a good bit more than I paid for the Groves saw! Bottom line is, I think buying the old saws are the way to go as long as they have no major defects. Not only are we getting great user tools that way, but I think we are also helping in preserving history.[attachment file=”DSCN0171.JPG”]
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You must be logged in to view attached files.10 January 2015 at 10:09 pm #123351Hi Nate, I am not sure where you are from but there is a fellow in Bucks Cty ,PA that makes and sells saw plates,nuts. and folded backs. His name is Dominic Grego aka. “Blacky’s Boy” he and another fellow own TGIG ( Two Guy’s in a Garage ), you can also find him on www. Woodnet.net as he is one of the Moderators on the Hand Tool Forum. He also sell’s scraper blades etc. and has resonable prices and can provide you with saw handle patterns, many to choose from. He currently only sells product’s in the US.
Steve
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