Tagged: diamond plate
- 27 January 2015 at 11:35 am #123942Alien8Participant
Hopeless link posting attempts.
Has the info that should have been in my previous post27 January 2015 at 11:04 pm #123962JoeParticipant
I too ruined a DMT dia-sharp course by trying to flatten some plane soles that were very problematic. I then bought a EZE lap course, and only use sand paper for flattening now. So far so good. Also bought at grinder for fixing blades that are messed up instead of heavy use on the coarse stone.
Joe in California29 January 2015 at 8:05 am #124058fudokaParticipant
I’m glad to see this thread – it clarifies the problem I’ve been having.
I was beginning to think I’d put my coarse and fine plates in the wrong order (the fact that they’re not labeled in any way doesn’t help) because what I thought was the coarse plate currently feels smoother than the fine one!
For simple resharpening purposes, the fine and superfine seem perfectly adequate so I only really need coarse for flattening the back of a new chisel or plane blade or grinding out damage.
I’ve got a couple of thick glass blocks left over from an abortive trial of the ‘scary sharp’ system so I reckon I’ll just get some 250 & 400 grit paper stuck on these for when I need coarse work. OK so float glass isn’t absolutely perfectly flat but I’m sure it’s adequate for my needs.30 January 2015 at 3:14 pm #124108
My experience so far with EZE-LAP diamond plates are not quite as the above. I’ve had them for several months now. I noticed fresh plates do indeed feel very coarse, and you’ll notice this wears away quickly, but this is simply the plate levelling out.
I’ve always used an abrasive belt cleaner with my plates to remove swarf, and normally wash them at the end of the day. I’ve flattened several chisels and I’m still noticing a very good cut from both my extra coarse, and coarse.
As for flattening planes, I found my granite plate to be within 0.004″, and only cost me £10 for a size large enough to do a Jack plane. If you keep using an abrasive belt cleaner, this helps make the job a lot quicker.30 January 2015 at 3:29 pm #124112SandyParticipant
I haven’t experianced any of this. I used oil on my plates when sharpening. That prevents the normal build up that has to be cleaned out periodically.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein1 February 2015 at 8:06 pm #124204Mark ArmstrongParticipant
I have set of five eze-lap plates from extra course to super fine.
The extra course and the course have degraded much more than the other plates.
I have sort of made this set up backwards got super fine first probably 2 years ago the set as a whole have been together for more than a year. Before eze-lap plates I used Trend extra course and a double sided Trend plate 300&1000g before that since I was a lad double sided Norton India oil stone.
I mainly use the eze-lap plates for flattening plane irons and chisels.
The extra course and course plates still do a reasonable job. You can tell by scratch pattern left by plates.
As for honing an edge I get a bit confused as I have oil stones , scary sharp films, diamond plates, Tormek grinder,Japanese water stones, and leather strops.
The eze-laps set of five is quite a chunky bit of kit on a board so really only comes out for flattening, same as the scary sharp set up a bit bulky and plus you really should use a honing guide. The Tormek only really use for re doinging primary bevels just make life easier but expensive. The Japanese water stones have to keep swapping and are messy but I will say this the edge you get is ultra sharp and hard to beat. So in the end I use Trend double sided 300-1000g or Norton India oil stone and leather strop and compound not much space used up on bench. So I am Back where I started 30 years ago.
I must admit I like the set up Mr Cosman has a Trend plate and a Shapton ceramic Glass plate 16000g I may be trying this out soon.
I must admit I like comparison when comes to different tools and sharpening I have got to find out the difference just curiosity in me. This dose have an effect on your woodworking.
So word of advice if you happy with what you got and it works stick with it and you will be much more productive.
Dagenham, Essex, England3 February 2015 at 1:09 am #124274Matt ShackladyParticipant
Interesting. I’ve had the same nagging thought after a couple months of using my coarse DMT. It’s such a subjective thing though, it’s hard to conclusively know if there’s a problem with it, or it’s just perception. They do state in their material that it will seems EXTRA coarse when you first start using it, but will ‘smooth’ out after the first few times.
I’ve been using mine to lap plane soles and blades. It works – but it’s slow. My conclusion was that I really needed the extra coarse to get the job done in a decent amount of time. I.e. it’s not the most efficient tool for the job of lapping.
I also noticed that mine has started turning a deep brown/black colour – anyone else’s doing that?
Matt3 February 2015 at 1:47 pm #124290EdParticipant
I find my coarse EZE lap is fine for regular sharpening, but, as many are reporting here, it did indeed loose that really aggressive bite that it had when first purchased. Actually, I think this is good and is what you want for regular sharpening. To handle the cases when I need to hog off a lot of material, I bought a 4th stone, a DMT diasharp Extra-coarse. 95% of the time, I use the three EZ lap stones in progression, as Paul shows, but when I need to reshape something, then the DMT comes in.
So, the answer may depend on whether you are talking about routine sharpening of your tools vs. occasional flattening and shaping
By the way, if memory serves, be careful comparing between the brands based on “coarse,” “fine,” and “super fine,” as the grit sizes may not be the same. I think I posted the EZE lap grit sizes in microns here in the past. DMT products are clearly marked in microns. Ah..here are the EZE lap grit sizes…. https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/discussions/topic/how-fine-exactly-is-the-super-fine-eze-lap-diamond-stone/3 February 2015 at 10:05 pm #124308davedevParticipant
Here is Pauls response to me on this topic.
I know the problem they feel they have. EZE-Lap plates do parallel DMT as far as abrasive qualities go and the also last the same too. Both lose the effective coarseness quite soon after purchase, but they continue cutting less abrasively but for many years thereafter. I am not worried about that. A coarse plate lasts me at the school about 3-4 years, which for most woodworkers just working wood part time and not teaching and sharpening ten sets of tools plus their own is probably the equivalent of 10-20 years. I do use a coarse abrasive paper from long abrasive rolls for initial flattening of plane soles these days because abrasive paper cuts better and quicker.
Thanks for contacting me,
Paul4 February 2015 at 10:29 am #124327
I’d like to add an update to my reply above.
I bought the extra coarse and coarse plates to grind new angles on my plane irons and chisels, nothing too big of a change, just a few degrees. I’ve had the plates for just under 7 months, and I work full time woodworking. My usual system comprised of the eze lap plates and menzerna compounds to strop with.
Just yesterday I got round to a problem I’ve been having sharpening using the PS method, but that I can explain further down. So I decided to change the bevel angle a little on a block plane iron and after long hard struggle with the coarser plates, I was only half way there. Quite disappointing considering that was the only reason for their purchase. The 150 grit side wouldn’t even cut as quick as a well worn sheet of 240 grit sandpaper.
I emailed the supplier and they’ve issued me a full refund, which I’m very happy with. Otherwise I would have been left with some very expensive paper weights.
I can see PS point on continued abrasion, but they’re a far fetch from the original stated grit after only several months, and frankly you’re wasting your time using those sides anymore, and dare I say, purchasing them in the first place.
Now my problem with the PS method of sharpening, which I admit, I may be the only one suffering from. All my plane irons and chisels had the usual convex bevels. I hadn’t checked my angles on the bevels since the first few times after changing to this approach. It seems I have been having a lot of trouble maintaining the angle at the cutting edge as the bevel became steeper. This was definitely the issue with bevel up planes where it does take a while longer to achieve a fresh sharpness. Hence my need to pop them back in a jig and reset the angles now and again. It seems virtually impossible to maintain feedback on the angle when you have a convex bevel when compared to a single flat bevel and the way you’d sharpen a kanna blade. I understand that exact angles are not of paramount importance, but some of mine were becoming way off. These diamond stones do wear prematurely and provide nothing like the stated longevity. I’m afraid I’d have to say I’d take the fresh cutting surface of a waterstone any day over these diamond stones.4 February 2015 at 1:15 pm #124341EdParticipant
vips- Are you getting “thick edges” or are you getting edges that aren’t square to the edge? The latter definitely happens to me. In general, I find I can correct these things on my diamond plates if I watch for them and correct them before they become too big. For the thick edge, I think this is why Paul emphasizes grinding the back portion of the convex edge and spending a lot of time there compared to just a few strokes to move things up to the edge. Much of the grinding is done at a lower angle, then you lift the handle. For me, rather than focusing on lifting the angle, I set my guess at the angle near the middle of the stone and then let the stroke become longer on the draw (pulling back toward myself). I let it get longer stroke by stroke and at some point, you can feel it wants to catch and the sound takes on a more scratchy sound. That’s when I know I’ve reached the edge and don’t go further steepening the angle. For being off-square, I just rock to the other side but, honestly, occasionally put narrower blades in a jig to square them back up…but don’t wait too long to do this!
I have a junk chisel I use for carpentry. Yesterday, I was able to take a couple chips out. They were tiny, so this worked. Otherwise, I’d have needed the grinder. So, I do think this set of stones works, but really just for routine sharpening with some corrections when you’re being diligent to detect problems when they are small. I’ve never had luck flattening blades on the stones. I make rapid initial progress, but then it stalls out and I don’t get to the edge. I hate flattening irons. It takes me *forever* no matter what method I use, even sandpaper on a block with frequent changes.4 February 2015 at 8:40 pm #124371
Ed- I’m not getting thick or out of square edges. It seems because there is little feedback from the angle you choose to sharpen at, as you don’t have a resting point on a convex bevel to register on the sharpening stone with, I was finding I’d keep increasing the angle as the tip seemed my only point of register. I take your points above about grinding away at the bevel again, but doing this each time leads to a very varied, and hardly repeatable practise. Admittedly this doesn’t matter until you’re aiming for a super sharp finish from the plane.
As for the stropping, it’s not actually there to provide extra sharpness, as if that’s what you’re relying on it for, you’ve failed at achieving the correct sharpness from the stones. Even how you remove the wire edge can affect the quality, but this is seldom discussed. Pop your edges into a honing guide and compare the edge you get from a consistent angle, and a freehand edge with multiple facets. A flat bevel is much easier to sharpen because of the feedback possible. Take a quick look at how a Kanna blade is sharpened to see correct registration.
Apologies if it sounds like I’m bashing the PS method of sharpening, but like I said earlier, I’ve failed to achieve any consistency, especially on thick irons like those in bevel up planes.
I’m sure we can debate sharpening methods endlessly.
Overall, my point was that I find the claims made for these diamond stones to be a little exaggerated. I see little point in stones which do indeed continue to cut, but cut with a magnitude less cutting power in only several months.5 February 2015 at 7:53 pm #124410Peter GeorgeParticipant
I’ve been thinking of investing in the diamond plates, but this thread has made me reconsider.
I’m currently using water stones. My current investment in them is between 1/3 and 1/2 of what the diamond plates would cost me and they still sharpen as well as they did when new.
"New York is big, but this is Biggar"5 February 2015 at 8:29 pm #124411Gareth MartinParticipant
Thankfully, I’m still happy using wet & dry abrasives and my second hand Tormek system and I’m satisfied with the results. The money involved with diamond plates was always an issue for me, I couldn’t justify the cost, when I get good results by just increasing the frequency and regularity of my sharpening. I am really sorry to hear of the disappointment others are experiencing with these very expensive accessories.6 February 2015 at 8:46 am #124428
After lengthy research I’ve opted for Sigma power ceramic stones. 1000/6000/13000. They claim to provide a super edge. As for longevity of an edge, it seems there’s a lot more to it than what our simple PS method will lead you to believe. http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/index.html
I’ll let you know how I get on with the stones, and possibly do some testing.
If any of you still are interested in diamond plates, I’d suggest staying clear of the coarser grades. Perhaps will little use, the finer grades may last longer. Here’s what Alex from classichandtools had to say “Surprised to hear of your problem with EZE-LAP, I had considered them quite reliable. We used to sell them but we noticed a few problems with double sided stones not being as flat as they should be. We now sell DMT Dia-Sharp and they have been fantastic, not one return in four years. Like all diamond stones they loose their cutting edge a little but nothing quite like you have experienced.”
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