- 9 March 2018 at 12:36 pm #493788
Recently I bought a very old saw, in a less than sad condition. It did cost 1,50 euro. I had restored planes and hand braces, but I never had restored a saw. I bought it more as a challenge in restoring than as a good purchase, but the saw was almost straight, the handle looked as a good beech handle and it was very little money after all.
It has been a nice work. The restoring of the blade hasn’t been very complicated, since the rust did come out very easily with sand paper and steel wool and the steel was more stained than pitted, ending smooth and straight. I have fixed the broken handle with a piece of beech that I have shaped after renew the glueing surface. I have replaced the old nuts whith a pair of new ones and applied BLO and Liberon Wax for finishing.
I have sharpened it, following Paul’s method, for a rip cut. And here is where the story becomes sad. The saw has 10 TPI, the teeth after sharpening are even and well shaped -at least this is how they look for me- and I have sharpened the first inch of the saw for a less agressive pitch. The setting has been done with a Somax S (the blue ones) saw setter using a 10-11 adjust. It looks even and uniform, but I can’t start the cut without problems. The saw gets blocked when start cutting and, sometimes, in the middle of the stroke, specially in crosscutting, when it always damages and rages the wood. I have tried with sucessive resharpenings and different settings, but the problem persists. The blade is straight and smooth. The only thing I haven’t tried is to sharpen it for crosscutting, but I would like to use this saw for rip cutting.
Here you are a pair of photos of the before and after.9 March 2018 at 12:56 pm #493801markhParticipant
Can you take a close up image of the saw tooth line? Along the line of the teeth so that the amount of set is visible. So that we can see the set of the teeth. You haven’t put too much set on the teeth maybe? If so, Paul has a fix for that. What about the wood that you were trying to cut – pine or hardwood.
I don’t know much about the somax saw-sets although I know that there are two of them – one for coarse and one for fine (blue and gold but I don’t know which one is coarse and which one is fine). I use a very old eclipse sawset.
The set is the only thing that I can think of if the teeth are otherwise shaped well and not too aggressive.
Mark9 March 2018 at 1:47 pm #493826EdParticipant
Did you joint the teeth before sharpening to make sure they are all at the same height (even if the gullets vary)? Could there be a high tooth or mis-set tooth?
Can you include a close up photo of the teeth from the side so that we can see how aggressive the rake is?9 March 2018 at 1:54 pm #493833
Here you are. I haven’t altered the original resolution, so you can see better, with more detail.
Yes, I joined the teeth before sharpening them, although their height was very uniform. In a couple of passes of the file I had a small flat point on all of them. I have checked the setting and it is correct.
The Somax S setter is for using with small saw teeth. In the 10-11 adjust it reaches only the upper part of the tooth. I have read that you must not bend all the tooth, only the end part, so I think I’m doing it correctly… but I’m new on these things.
Thank you very much.
9 March 2018 at 3:17 pm #493896deanbeckerParticipant
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Julio T..
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Julio T..
That looks like a lot of set to me. Do the double hammer trick to it. See if it helps.9 March 2018 at 5:17 pm #493969EdParticipant
The set doesn’t look particularly huge to me, but it looks like many of the teeth are raked forward. Even just vertical is quite aggressive. If the set isn’t too small, I wouldn’t think it would lead to grabbing. A large set might lead to extra work and a wandering cut. I’m wondering about the tooth shape.
Have a look at some drawings and photos of tooth profiles regarding rake, compare to yours, and let us know what you think.27 March 2018 at 12:34 pm #510358Doug FinchMember
The rake does look aggressive, but what about your sawing technique? Are you gripping the saw handle too firm? Is your upper body too rigid? These things can cause you to push downward into the wood instead of letting the teeth glide over the wood. You can have an aggressive rake and compensate for that with your sawing technique. Also, is your arm, elbow, wrist, one flowing smooth motion – or are you going side to side? This can also cause binding of the saw plate. There are times when I’m trying to start a cut and my body geometry is off – it doesn’t work. It is like a golfer at the tee box – I have to back away and start over. I have an old heavy backsaw that sometimes, I over grip because it is heavy. I have to really think about relaxing when I use that saw. I love the old saw because it cuts so nicely, but I have to be aware of my geometry when I use it. My Veritas saw makes me lazy because it is so light.27 March 2018 at 11:21 pm #511464Dean BrowettParticipant
This is a link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mnxwc) to probably the best saw refurbishment video you will find on the web. An English guy called Andy Lovelock gives you everything you need to know – even how to completely file your teeth off and insert new teeth in either rip or cross-cut. From memory I think he even covers hybrid sharpening – a sort of mix between rip and cross-cut sharpening.
It’s about 2 and a half hours long, but if you can’t refurbish a saw after this video then you need to take it to the saw doctor and give up trying to sharpen your saw.
Dean28 March 2018 at 8:08 am #511798AlanParticipant
As @Dogwood says, Andy [www.LumberJocks] covers all you need. Well worth watching and making lots of notes. (I wish Andy lived next-door to me)
Another technique is to finish by lightly running a fine flat file along each side of the saw plate to ensure all teeth are uniformly aligned. One pass, handle-to-toe, then test. This corrects any wayward, overly-set teeth.28 March 2018 at 10:31 am #511853
I had watched the Andy Lovelock’s sharpening western saws video. In fact, I had applied some of his advices in the sharpening of this saw.
Re-watching this one, and re-reading Paul’s book, I thought at last that the problem could be in the rake of the teeth, zero o nearly zero degrees. I wasn’t very happy with the teeth size, anyway (10 tpi in a 10 inch saw), very big for a small saw. So, I’ve made my first saw re-toothing work following Paul’s method, the one he shows in his video, and the results have been amazing. I’ve re-cut the teeth to 12 tpi, with a rake of 8 degrees and a ripcut pattern. I’ve setted the teeth to an adjust of 12 in a Somax S (blue one) saw set, and the saw is another saw now. It cuts like I wanted it to cut, now.
Here you are some photos of the process. I must say that a few teeth have ended slightly o very slightly smaller than the others, but the performance of the saw is quite good. It’s my first time in retoothing a saw, so I think I can feel happy.
I had recorded a five-seconds video with the cutting test of the saw, but it looks like you can’t upload videos here.
And you’re right, Doug: I trend to apply too much pressure when I’m sawing, and the results are better when you leave the saw do its job. I’ve learned this too.
Thank you very much you all for your help and your answers.
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