Workbench design
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I am desiging a workbench that I would like to build before summer.
In the attached Sketchup file you can see what I am intending to make.
It will be 1500mm long and 700mm wide. Currently I am aiming for a height of 930mm but this is under review. The vise is a Spear & Jackson 230mm quick release.
The wood is mostly 100x100mm laminated pine. Only the front piece is 100x240mm.
I am intending to use through mortises with drawbore pins.
I would appreciate your comments and suggestions so that I can eliminate any design errors before ordering the wood.
ThanksKeith
Just some personal thoughts/opinions, not scientific or dogmatic or anything… It’s your bench and your choices, so please take these in a helpful spirit
1. The ideal bench height is personal preference based on your height and the type of work you want to do and sometimes best found through practical trial and correction. You could consider making the bench to the tallest you consider reasonable as you can always shorten the legs afterwards by cutting from the bottom if you find the bench too high when working. It’s probably more difficult to gracefully add on height after the fact. This concept may mean placing the lowest rail a little higher than you would otherwise choose.
2. I am more in favour of designs that have the vice inboard of the leg as I would be worried about a bench like this tipping or moving from the weight of the vice plus project, plus hand tool efforts. Maybe that’s not going to be a problem if there is a lot of weight in/on the bench or it’s secured to a wall or something like that.
3. From the picture, the legs look to be through-tenoned into the benchtop and there may not be another top cross rail/bearer? If the legs are through-tenoned only then honestly it would probably still be pretty solid, but if the legs were housed into the apron and/or glued/screwed/bolted to the apron that might make it even more rigid?
4. Underbench storage. Have you thought what you may do with the large space under the bench? If there is any chance that you may want to store anything heavy that has wheels/castors, then you may want to reconsider having all four sides access blocked by the low rails.
6 March 2017 at 9:22 pm #309844I agree with point 2, a leg underneath a vise makes rough work like chopping mortises or joining tight joints etc. much more pleasant.
I also agree about joining the legs to the apron(s?). You got a thickness of 100 mm, so you plenty of meat to make a wedged housing dado (see Paul Seller’s video about making his workbench). This should be a very good insurance against flexing. Furthermore, I wouldn’t like the endgrain of the through tenons on the top surface, because it is quite abrasive.
If you want your bench rock solid, and according to your measurements, you probably do, check Paul Sellers blog and videos about building a workbench. I don’t mean to say, that you should build yours like his, but try to understand the concepts. It should help you to improve your design.
As for the bench height, I would leave it high for the moment. It is fairly easy to shorten the legs, but quite a challenge to make it higher.
Have you considered to make a bench, that can be taken apart? I think, yours will be quite heavy.
My only concern about the front and back rails is, that you eventually want to sweep the floor underneath the bench. The side rails give some clearance, but if you want a clean workshop, especially the front rail might be quite annoying after a while. If you use wedged dados to house the legs in the aprons, you might not need front and back rails at all.
Anyway, I think, your design might work as it is. Good luck making it, with or without any modifications. I would love to read a bit of your making process.
Dieter
Thanks Mike, thanks Hugo,
I have two benches at the moment. the original is 890mm and the other is 980mm. I find the first too low and and the new bench will replace this one completely. The other bench height was an experiment and I am not completely happy with it. But you comment about being able to shorten is very sensible and I will redesign with this in mind.
The vise position was inboard originally but I wanted to get my feet under the left end of the bench. I had not thought of tipping or workung over the leg so this will be moved back.
With regard to the legs; I had looked at Paul’s videos but wanted to make something slightly different. I am not bothered about the weight as its location is final and I have no intention of moving. I want to see if I can build something without any screws. I think the left and right crossbeam tenons could be extended through the legs into the apron. I did not see the need for an apron at the back as this side will be inaccessible. I will have to rethink this and see what I can come up with.
For the space at the front I had originlly planned to put a cabinet with two wide drawers on top of the front and back rails. But the of having something on castors is quite appealing. And yes cleaning would be a real chore if the rails are too low. More food for thought.Many thanks for your input, I will see what I can make out of it.
Gruß
Keith7 March 2017 at 9:44 pm #309877I wonder, if the main reason for aprons was stability in the first place. Bottom rails can’t really stop the legs from flexing, and I have seen many work-benches without aprons, that have diagonal rails instead. Of course, aprons are a very good base to add drawers, attach vises etc.
Perhaps you should shorten the second bench a bit, to see, how that feels. Paul Sellers has written a lot about bench heights and there is no final conclusion, except that he knows exactly, what height is correct for himself. I suppose, if someone had several benches, each dedicated to specific tasks, he might chose different heights accordingly. So the height of a general-purpose bench must be a compromise.
If you want to avoid an apron on the back, how about an x-beam there? I am not an expert, but I think, tenons can be compressed over time and allow the legs to flex. An x-beam would have to shrink or expand along the grain and that is very unlikely to happen. And even then, this would move the legs in our out permanently and keep them in the new positions.
By the way, I am not an expert, so be careful, when following my ideas. I like to think things through and often get very useful results. But sometimes, I miss a small detail and this can have horrible consequences…
Dieter
Hi Dieter,
I have reworked the design based on the comments and now it looks a little different to the original version. I think this should work so I will probably order the wood next week.
Grüße aus Darmstadt
Keith
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.That looks like it would be rock solid Keith.
The only minor issue I can see is that the protruding tenons from the top cross rails would be going into a cross grain mortice in the apron, which may be slightly more difficult to make neatly. Not that that matters too much as they would be hidden, or you can work very carefully and keep rescoring the cross grain mortice walls as you deepen these mortices.
Please let us know how the build goes. I’m always interested to see what others have been up to.
Mike
I am in two minds with the protuding tenons. I was thinking of going completely through the apron to provide more support. I know Paul did not do this so I am wondering whether this would be overkill. Alternatively I could make the bench slightly thinner by deepening the housing dados on the aprons from the planned 20mm to perhaps 30mm. And as a result of this not bother with protuding tenons at all. I have not done that on the latest design but I will reconsider before buying the wood. I am also still unsure about the final height. I think I will plan for 1000mm and work my way down 😉
Keith
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.8 March 2017 at 9:31 pm #309942I like your new design. The tenons going through the aprons remind me of Ockhams knife: Cut away anything that isn’t needed. It also reminds me, that Paul uses a haunched tenon there. Perhaps, this is not a coincidence. I admit, that I don’t quite understand the benefit of the haunched tenon.
Paul mentioned, that on bookshelves, the dados have a depth of 1/4″ (6,4mm) maximum, so 20 mm on the aprons should be plenty. And I have seen a dismantled wooden staircase, where the steps were seated in 10 mm dados.
Well, don’t think too much. I believe, that any of your designs will make a good work-bench and too much thinking will delay your schedule…
Dieter
I have finally finished the workbench and have come to the conclusion that I can live without pine for a while.
The attached pictures show hopefully enough detail.
There were / are several mistakes made along the way but I prefer to look at them as lessons for future products.
I had thought about adding wheels to be able to move it around but I found the Axminster ones used by others to be expensive and with unclear dimensions (no info on the website) I was concerned that I would be tripping over them. The furniture movers that I already had worked perfectly well to get from the glue up area to the final destination.
The Record vice was reused from the bench that I decommissioned (cut up for firewood). I added a Veritas Inset Vice and made a couple of bench dogs to go with it. I have not fished drilled 19mm holes for the bench dogs and hold fasts, but I will only add them as I see the need rather than making a Swiss cheese out of the bench on day one.
There are no screws in this other than those needed to fix the vices in place. The only machines I used was an electric drill and a sander at the end. The sander was “necessary” as this “lovely” pine kept tearing despite frequent sharpening of blades and chisels.Regards
Keith
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.30 June 2017 at 10:02 pm #313374Congratulations, this looks really neat!
I wonder, if pine in Germany is somewhat special. When I see people working with pine on youtube (not only Paul Sellers), it seems to be nice and friendly wood, except for a few nasty knot areas. The legs of my workbench are pine and it was an almost catastrophic adventure. Yesterday, I read a catalogue about garden wood (for fences, carports etc.), mostly pine. They hinted, that some treatment for weather-hardening can cause silica to surface, and my wood looked exactly like on that foto. Perhaps, most pine in Germany is treated and they don’t even tell you???
Just out of interest? How well do you get along with the carpet in your workshop? I want to move my workshop into the basement, which is also my personal private living room – with carpet, which has to stay.
Dieter
Thanks Dieter.
I am not sure what they do with pine here in Germany but I have yet to find some of a decent quality. My local dealer is geared to serving trade so someone like me needing only a couple of metres is not going to be able to rummage around in the stacks.The floor covering is not carpet. The cellar floor is tiled and on top of that I have placed some “Fitness Bodenbelag – Gummi Antivibration – 20mm – 100x125cm”. This is what the workbench is standing on. In front of of the workbench I stand on an “Anti-Ermüdungsmatte Soft-Tritt” This I find quite comfortable and in winter, when the floor is that bit cooler, the insulation means that I do not get cold feet.
This also helps if I drop a chisel. At least I do not damage it. The downside is that the chisel bounces back so it pays to make sure that you are wearing long trousers and work shoes.Regards
Keith
1 July 2017 at 1:04 pm #313386That is the big issue with Pine, Spruce and to some extent Larch, its the go to Construction wood.
And in that application the quality really doesnt matter too much, unlike fast growth and availability.
It also really depends on where the Tree grew, ideally you want one thats grown on meager soil (in the Mountains), that facilitates slow growth and closely spaced growthrings.For the Homegamer you’re probably best off buying directly off a sawmill and really pick each board/slab individually. Sure you’ll most likely have to let the wood dry for a couple months/years but its cheap and depending on the size of the Mill you’ll have a wide selection and can pick out your pieces.
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