9 December 2012 at 6:30 pm #4432
I’m trying to find some saws. I’m searching and watching ebay. But, it’s difficult for me to determine if the saws are rip or crosscut. Even when I look at some saws physically (in person) at a local store or, someone selling them locally it’s hard to tell. Is anyone else having that same problem? 🙂
I’m using Paul’s guidelines from the Woodworking 1 & 2 book as a guide.
Another thing I’m finding difficult in my search is, finding a tenon rip saw that’s 14 ppi. I’m starting to think they don’t exist. 🙂
And I think I’m still suffering from “sticker shock” too. These things are expensive!!! I don’t seem to find those ebay deals for $5 to $10.
Sharpening Hand Saws
Rip and Crosscut saws @ ~7ppi
General Panel saw @ ~10ppi
Tenon saw (10, 12 or 14″) @ ~14ppi
Texas, USA10 December 2012 at 1:46 am #4452AnonymousInactive
Boy, the crickets are chirping on this thread, huh?
I think you just have to wait a bit to find what you want. Also, I’m no pro, but I’m betting 15 ppi versus 14 ppi doesn’t make a lick of difference.
-Jeff10 December 2012 at 2:13 am #4456
Laffs! …yeah, I hear the chirping!
15ppi? I wish. I see more 9 or 10 but, they’re crosscut, not rip. And, the ones that don’t state if they’re crosscut or rip, are difficult for me to make that determination from the pics.
Oh well, I ‘spose you’re right. I tend to get in a hurry once I decide to do something (like buy a saw). I want it now. 🙂 …must have patients.
Texas, USA10 December 2012 at 3:40 am #4459
If you want a small tenon/backsaw, pre-sharpened, your best bet is to get one of the molded-spine Veritas saws. At ~$70, it’s the least expensive new premium backsaw on the market by at least $100. These are great saws, and require no work up front to start.
If you’re okay with doing some restoration, then it doesn’t matter if the saw if filed cross-cut to begin with. Just get out your file and reshape the teeth. I’m watching a 10″ inch open-handled Disston, 15ppi, on Ebay right now. I’d post the link but it closes in 20 minutes. Top bid right now is $38.
Here’s another, 14″ carcase style backsaw @ 13ppi, closes in less than a day, top bid right now $33: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Old-JOHNSON-CONAWAY-Brass-Ribbed-Back-Saw-Split-Nuts-Likely-Pre-1857-/310524161315?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484caead23
In the US, searching on “backsaw” instead of “tenon saw” may provide more results. They’re out there.
Just moved to NE Ohio10 December 2012 at 3:46 am #4460
Here’s a couple others, close in a couple of days.
Disston, 12″, 14ppi:
Just moved to NE Ohio10 December 2012 at 4:37 am #4461
For some reason, I haven’t considered changing the filing of the teeth from crosscut to rip but, now that you’ve mentioned it, I don’t know why it couldn’t be done.
I ‘spose I should find some old “El Cheapo” saws and start practicing. I’ve just ordered a set of Grobet saw files. 🙂 I’m also looking for a saw set.
Texas, USA10 December 2012 at 7:06 am #4462jonkilleenParticipant
There are definitely some bargains to by had. I found myself this 14″ Disston http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-henry-disston-14-fine-tooth-tenon-saw-brass-back-/281029117127?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&nma=true&si=njxJtI9c27AZKf5%2BWDM9h4NuoY8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc on eBay.co.uk last week, and only paid £9.01 for it. It hasn’t arrived yet, so I may well still have bought myself a pup, but it was in amongst others going at more than 3 times that price.
BTW I used Gixen (again) to put a snipe bid in for me. Only started using it after seeing it mentioned in a blog by Paul. It’s worked really well for me on a number of items.
Good luck in your search.
Yorkshireman currently living in Hampshire10 December 2012 at 8:17 am #4464AnonymousInactive
As a general rule, it pays to assume saws are crosscut unless stated otherwise, because most are. Especially if the saw plate exceeds 24″ in length. Rip saw production eased off by quite a degree as site saws (Bench and circular saws) became more popular. Tenon saws (Back saws) tend to be crosscut up to 14 tpi and are often rip for larger tooth counts, but – especially when buying secondhand – a great deal depends on the previous owner’s preferences.
Jon picked up a very nice saw which should sharpen up nicely and provide a lifetime’s worth of continuous service. 🙂10 December 2012 at 9:19 am #4466David GillParticipant
I have just bought a new 12″ 13 tpi tenon saw at the recent wood working show at Harrogate England for £26 it looks and seems to saw good.
It is from Crown from Sheffield. I assume that it is made here in the UK?
Wigan, Lancs. England :10 December 2012 at 10:48 am #4467AnonymousInactive
Yes, Crown is an English firm and I think they make decent saws too. £26 isn’t a bad price for a 12″ tenon saw 🙂
In spite of having tickets, I narrowly missed out on Harrogate this year due to family commitments, but hope to make next year’s show.
With a little patience, older saws can be found comparatively cheaply and quite often in pristine condition.
Brands are many and varied, but the ones I seek out (In the UK) tend to be by;
Spear & Jackson e.g. “Professional”, “88”, “Spearior” with reinforced handles …….. Avoid “Workhorse” as they’re not taper ground blades, were badly handled and notorious for binding in the cut.
Tyzack e.g. “Nonpareil”
Disston e.g. D7, D8, etc.10 December 2012 at 11:18 am #4470Paul SellersKeymaster
Can I jump in here ‘cos I think we have some good news? Saws and sharpening can be very confusing and we are trying to minimize that confusion in what is, with a little practice, a simple and enjoyable procedure. We have recently filmed a method for sharpening that will hopefully simplify it for everyone. Most of it is nuts-and-bolts sharpening and decision making mid file stroke. We will expand this into subsequent more specialised sharpening methods after we launch this one We need a couple of more days to finish up.
Re Crown saws, these are made by Thomas Flynn and so if they are new and unused t is likely that they will need de-setting and possibly sharpening. The are good saws, but for some reason they have never given us the performance of better quality saws. I wrote an article on these saws some years ago and described them as more a saw kit. They have a good brass back, good steel with edge-retaining qualities and a noce wooden handle. Crown doesn’t care about what we are looking for and it doesn’t really matter whether a saw arrives sharp because no saw in daily use will last more than a few days before it needs light filing again to get the edge you need in fine woodworking. I have owned and used all of the range Thomas Flynn saw makers make under their different names. As I understand it, Thomas Flynn saws bought the names of former makers as they went out of business and so Thomas Flynn, Garlick, Pax and such became their own brand names and they are all made under the same roof. Some of them are more refined and higher quality in the finished product. Crown happens to be one of the lower end saws in terms of finish, but the steel, brass and wood are about the same as most of Thomas Flynn products. I will say this, any of these saws will make a good long-life saw.
One of the students brought in a very nice and clean Disston USA D-8 this weekend and I sharpened it for the class to see the process. He paid only about £20 from The Old Tool Store. So Disstons can be had for a good price and few saw match their quality.10 December 2012 at 1:35 pm #4472
Very excited about the new saw sharpening clip, Paul. I have the Working Wood 1/2 set, and that revolutionized my saw sharpening from 4hrs+ per saw to about 20-30 minutes. But I’d like to improve on that and I’m still a little nervous about trashing the teeth, so it can’t hurt to see it again.
Just moved to NE Ohio10 December 2012 at 2:24 pm #4475
Thanks Paul and everyone for the input. I appreciate it. Your comments are helping me to solidify and improve my understanding of this topic.
Paul, I’ve read and re-read the saw sharpening chapter in the book (Working Wood 1 &2) and, watched the DVD multiple times. Each time I do, I feel a little more is gleaned. 🙂 I’m looking forward to the new presentation on saw sharpening. I’m sure I’ll gain even more.
Regarding saws on ebay, my observations are right in line with Gary’s statement. The majority of them appear to be filed crosscut. The more I study the various pictures of the teeth, the more I’m beginning to recognize the difference between crosscut and rip filings. But many of these saws teeth are in such bad shape, it’s almost impossible to tell what the filing is! But as Eric pointed out, it really doesn’t matter too much. Just re-file them they way you want them to be. 🙂 The saws with the teeth in such poor shape lend themselves to that even more.
Texas, USA10 December 2012 at 4:24 pm #4486David GillParticipant
Thanks for your response , the saw I bought was a show special do not know what the normal price would be but it certainly looks and feels like a quality tool and at £26 good value. The show was very busy with lots to see sorry you missed it.
I also look forward to Paul’s video on sharpening I have had a few goes at sharpening an old tenon saw but without much success i think I would need a good bench light and maybe some form of magnification to enable me to see the teeth clearly. I would be nervous about re-setting and sharpening it , not sure if I would improve it.
Wigan, Lancs. England :10 December 2012 at 11:38 pm #4521Brent IngvardsenParticipant
Im looking forward to the new sharpening technique as well. I also have noticed over the lastyear how old saws have been increasing in value on Ebay and hand tool forums. Im still finding plenty of saws locally at garage sales for $ 2-10 depending on condition. I find very few backsaws by comparison, but they are still out there. Currently I have a stack of saws to clean and just a few handles to rebuild.
Meridianville, Alabama, USA
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.