Flush mounting bench vice? Opinions?
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Based on recommendations here, I picked up a large 10 1/2” wide Veritas bench vice (quick release in a style similar to the Record vices that Paul uses):
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=49980&cat=1,41659
The shipment arrived yesterday and I’m very pleased with the quality of construction. Unfortunately, I’m a bit perplexed at how to mount the darn thing. According to Paul’s workbench, the vice’s jaw should sit proud of the bench apron. That was my original intent, but I’m second guessing myself.
Now that I’ve got the parts in my hands, I’m realizing it would be easier to simply mount the vice jaw flush with the back side of my 12” wide apron (I built a different style bench than Paul’s). This would reduce the depth capacity of the vice by about 1 – 1 1/2”, but installation would be MUCH easier. See the ‘Flush Mount Behind Apron’ option in this PDF if I’m not being clear:
http://www2.woodcraft.com/pdf/77A01.pdf
So… Here is my question:
Does anyone see a problem with this ‘flush mount behind apron’ design? What are your thoughts? It seems to me that it makes better use of my apron and hold fasts than any of the other mounting options (*and* it is easier given my current bench). About the only area of concern I have is that Paul will sometimes clamp a clamp into his vice. I would be able to mimic that, if necessary, by shimming out around the clamp a bit on both sides.
I guess I’m concerned about the problems that aren’t occurring to me. Please chime in with any concerns you may have. I’d hate to get this beast mounted only to realize it was a terrible idea.
For reference, my bench is basically identical to this:
http://crossofwood.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/EnglishNicholson-e1383528445274.jpg
The leg vice wasn’t well made, and was poorly installed. I’m replacing the leg vice with a record style vice.
Thanks! I can’t wait for my holiday to start so I can start working on this!
22 November 2013 at 9:11 pm #22080Nathan…
1) It looks to me that it would be much more difficult to install the vice flush to the inside of the apron. You would have to mortise out the area where the rear jaw fits up into the bench top. You do not want to shim the vice down. You want the vice jaws to be a half inch max (IHO) below the bench top.2) If you plan to imitate Paul’s methods, a flush rear jaw may cause you problems. Paul clamps pieces into the vice for planing and sawing. If the rear vice jaw is flush you are going to constantly get your fingers pinched.
3) If you are worried about not being able to utilize the bolt holes directly behind the rear jaw, they will land inside the apron I think, don”t be. I installed mine ala Paul with (2) lag bolts at the very rear and (2) long screws thru the rear jaw liner and rear jaw. Its seen a year of use and has not loosened at all.
I probably caused you to have more questions than answers so keep posting until your satisfied.
22 November 2013 at 9:19 pm #22082I think Veritas completely different to a Record vice
So you may not have option for fitting to outside of apron.Yes there is a problem when fitting vice behind Apron if Record type vice.
Which I done on my bench because I thought it would look nicer which it does like you already have said you lose 1. capacity and 2. When you want to put a sash cramp in vice. You have to pack the jaw out to hold sash cramp because the head of the cramps hit the apron before the vice can clamp onto the bar of sash cramp. Sash cramp handy for holding timber when you use plough plane rebate plane or just to keep board in a fixed position on workbench
So if I where to do again I would fix vice on outside of apron.22 November 2013 at 9:23 pm #22083oopps I was looking at this http://www.canadiantools.co.uk/tools/Veritas-Vices—Clamping.html
22 November 2013 at 9:30 pm #22086Also read through this as well…
http://paulsellers.com/2012/06/making-the-workbench-15/Thanks for your feedback Greg, that is exactly the type of input I’m soliciting. I just want to make sure I think through everything first.
The bench top is 1 5/8” thick. It is actually pretty poorly made, but I’m proud of it.
To address your other comments and questions:
1) You are right. I would have to mortice the top some. I was tempted to just cut a mortice hole through the top all the way into the area where the vice would sit. It would give me an easier job cutting the mortice and I would be able to only take out the bare minimum wood necessary. If I mortice from the bottom, it would be a royal pain. I can patch the top up, maybe even with a contrasting wood for fun. This approach would probably be easier than simply cutting out a hole in the front apron when all things are considered. I will still have to shim the spacing between the bottom of the bench top and the top of the vice supports, but I’m going to have to do that with any solution.
2) I haven’t had any problems with my current leg vice, which clamps against the apron. I haven’t had any problems pinching my fingers. I’ve basically been using it to mimic Paul’s method without any issues. Am I not considering something here?
3) I wasn’t worried about support. I’m primarily worried about the accuracy of the mortice hole I have to cut in the front in order to front mount the vice. I can muck up things 6 ways from Sunday when installing it behind the apron without compromising how well supported the vice is. If I muck up the apron mortice, then I won’t have appropriate support to hold the vice securely (and example would be if I cut the hole too large). My moving my risky cut to the patchable area above the vice, I give myself a bit of grace regarding errors.
Plus, having a flush mount will allow me to use the apron & holdfasts to support long boards for plowing/etc. I could still utilize Paul’s clamp in the vice method if necessary by building to L’s of wood (like bench hooks) which ride inside the vice to allow the clamp to clear.
22 November 2013 at 9:59 pm #22090Does the vise come apart easily. If not you will have to cut basically the same hole in the apron either way.
Flush mount is fine. Lots of folks prefer it. Just pointing out the main reason for the way Paul mounts his vises. He posted about it on his blog but I can’t seem to find it right now.Thanks for the link Greg. I had read that page to ensure I had a firm understanding of how Paul recommended we install the vices.
The vice does come apart quite easily. I would only need to drill 3 holes in the apron to account for the guides and the screw.
I’d love to know ‘why’ Paul mounts them the way he does. From a pragmatic standpoint, I think flush mounting may be best for me, but I definitely want input from others with more experience than I have.
Nathan, another issue i forsee with mounting as you mentioned in your first post is your apron is then your rear jaw. This means you will over time need to cut out and replace this section of the apron.
I mounted mine as described in Paul’s blog linked by Greg. I mounted the vise about 1/2″ below the bench top then routed a hollow in the back of the wooden jaw so when it’s mounted none of the rear jaw of the vise is visible. Sort of what is shown in the edge mount figure from the woodcraft article you linked, but screwed in as Greg has stated. Very solid and i am quite happy with the result.
Barry
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