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Woodworking Masterclasses

How square should a square be?

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Previous Back to: Tools and Tool Maintenance/Restoration33 Replies

Welcome! / Forums / General Woodworking Discussions / Tools and Tool Maintenance/Restoration / How square should a square be?

Tagged: combination square, square, stanley, tool

  • This topic has 33 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 7 months ago by kodi.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
← 1 2 3 →
  • Author
    Posts
  • Mihai
    22 March 2013 at 3:33 pm #9728

    Hi , Matt

    Tolerance -you said ? That matters on what you are working with – and who are you asking .

    These meanings  are different for a carpenter , mechanic ,cabinet-maker, astronome.

    But – thumb’s rule are the numbers of  Pitagora [Pythagoras] in a triangle : 3,4,5 – hence , the tolerance -and resolution is how accurately can -we measure -them.

    It is hard to believe that you have got 3.5mm distance , please , double – triple check.

    Please consider the attached file… if I am not too late…

    Settings
    Joseph Sellers
    22 March 2013 at 5:13 pm #9739

    @mgr,

    Brilliant diagram. Thanks for taking the time to fully explain this.

    Settings
    Mihai
    22 March 2013 at 5:44 pm #9740

    …my pleasure , Joseph.

    With the risk of repetition , may -I point to

    [http://www.convert-me.com/en/]

    – a way to cross the Atlantic…

     

    Settings
    Matt Wilcox
    22 March 2013 at 8:00 pm #9748

    Thanks for all of the information and help everyone 🙂

    Settings
    Matt Wilcox
    22 March 2013 at 8:02 pm #9749

    Great diagram too, thanks, I shall be checking it like that tomorrow 🙂

    Settings
    Matt Wilcox
    24 March 2013 at 8:48 pm #9773

    FYI: I did as suggested (though I used clamps onto some spare hardboard rather than screwing a rule to some MDF – same result, immovable straight edge).

    The square is off by 3mm at 240mm extension – half a millimetre less than I’d thought, but still, seemingly, a heck of a lot off.

    Settings
    Mihai
    24 March 2013 at 11:33 pm #9783

    Hi , Matt. If we are talking about (http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/handtools-storage-workwear/handtools/measures-levels/measures/-specificproducttype-squares/B-and-Q-300mm-Combination-Square-11247670?skuId=11758375)

    (I’ve just googled this B&Q and found -out lots about. No comment.)

    Just in case you  sense a challenge in that 90 degrees ….) so what should I do to make -it square , before disposal?

    1. CHALLENGE : I observed that the error is consistent , so when you take out the ruler , the aluminium cast body should present a clean-flat-straight groove / sliding channel.(Dirty -clean -it , and clean the steel rule -too. By -the way : is the ruler straight ?)

    1.1-If there are some setting nibs , one or two , I’d follow the steps pointed by boyce and @agaudet , but verrrry gently (this might take several attempts.) This should do.

    1.2.If there are no factory setting nib(s) , I’D MAKE ONE , using a sharp nail or a narow chisel , a good vise and a responsive … hammer. It should be solid enough for a long time stability.Then go to 1.1.

    Still feel the challenge ?

    2. I would thicken the horizontal arm with a -say 2-3 mm  flat plate (this should be 1/8 th-of-an-inch) aluminium or hardwood (mind the grain) using an adhesive -and responsively flat -finish its surface (150 -300 grits)  until my combi-square ‘boils’ at 90 degrees.THIS MUST DO.

    I’m sorry for your time ( and my poor English).

    Good luck , and as Master said , somewhere , once : ‘keep persevering !’

    Settings
    Dave
    25 March 2013 at 8:15 pm #9812

    Matt, sorry to hear it was out that much.   I don’t know where you live but take a look at these engineer squares lee valley sells.  They arent combination squares but the 6 inch or 8 inch would at least get you going.

    http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32601&cat=1,42936

    -Canada

    Settings
    Mark Armstrong
    2 April 2013 at 10:09 pm #10409

    You must have a good square if not errors will occur.

    A lot of woodworkers now turning to engineer squares Moor and Wright, Starret and the like are good as a refference. 6″ about £30

    A good combination square are so handy. I have a 400 mm combination was not that expensive £25 made in the USA but spot on also an old Stanley 300 mm combo they probably about £25 now to buy

    I have a couple of rosewood  and brass stock squares look loverly but never found them to be that great for square.

    Dagenham, Essex, England

    Settings
    Anonymous
    10 December 2013 at 4:43 pm #23527

    You don’t know what you are talking about.

    Settings
    Anonymous
    10 December 2013 at 4:48 pm #23528

    The man in this film does not know what he is taking about.

    Settings
    Eddy Flynn
    10 December 2013 at 5:13 pm #23533

    @clearwatertom Welcome Tom , which man are you talking about /why

    Eddy .. Liverpool, Merseyside, UK
    ,

    Settings
    John Purser
    10 December 2013 at 5:46 pm #23536

    I bought an old Starrett Combination square off ebay and was disappointed to discover it wasn’t quite square. I thought it was a loss until I read about the nibs. I got some needle files, took my time, and wound up with a perfectly square Starrett for very little money.

    Start with wood with a truly flat side, think about what you’re doing, and go slow testing frequently and it’s really pretty simple to fix.

    John

    John Purser
    Hubert, NC

    Settings
    Sandy
    10 December 2013 at 6:09 pm #23537

    Square is only as square as square needs to be… Sorry I had to play with a few words… I personally own several good quality squares due to my being a Machinist/Engineer. Tolerance is up to the user. How much is acceptable to you? Given all of the suggestions so far and if the surface you are grounding your square against is flat then I probably would look at replacing this square. You can get a cheap square that is pretty accurate or even make one for yourself. American Woodworker Magazine had a pretty good article on making squares a few months ago. I’ll dig out my copy when I get in the shop later today and post the issue and date.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Albert Einstein

    Settings
    John Purser
    10 December 2013 at 6:43 pm #23540

    Thanks for the video Ken. Lots of good ideas there.

    Back when I was buying old tool boxes I came across at least a half dozen try squares with the wood face and metal arm. And not one of them was even reasonable close to square and not one of them could be saved. I don’t know if humidity was the cause but I do know it put me off them permanently. I’ve also had three combination squares in that time and two of the three were perfectly square as far as I could test them and the third was an easy fix.

    I have been looking for an all metal try square for checking my face and edge sides. I wanted something with a broader registration face than my combination square. After watching that video I think I’ll price some “engineer’s squares” instead.

    I’ll also start testing my squares regularly. I can see how a combination square could wear its way out of square over time and I wouldn’t notice.

    John

    John Purser
    Hubert, NC

    Settings
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