York pitch on bevel up plane

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  • #627359
    Roberto Fischer
    Participant

    Has anyone experimented with a York pitch on a bevel up plane? I have a standard angle block plane that I don’t find much use for and I thought of getting a lower cutting angle on it by sharpening the main bevel to low angle (15-20º) and then grinding something like a York pitch on the flat side (10º?).

    On the contrary to a bevel down plane, a York pitch would allow for a lower cutting angle by allowing me to sharpen the main bevel to a much lower degree than the edge would support otherwise.

    Would moving the “center of thrust” away from the flat face counteract any advantages of having the bevel up?

    I’d love to hear from others on this.

    #627427
    Roberto Fischer
    Participant

    I kept thinking about this and looks like I used the term York pitch wrong. What I meant was the extra bevel on the flat face we can grind on bevel down planes to achieve a York pitch with a regular frog.

    #627500
    Ecky H
    Participant

    Hello Roberto,

    prior to everything else: I didn’t try it yet, just thought about it.

    As always – there is a price to pay. The price of the lower cutting angle by keeping the bevel angle is a lower relief angle. The relief angle is needed to reduce the friction and prevent skidding. Mr. Paul Sellers addressed that skidding issue in a video or a blog about a router plane with no or not enough relief angle. Unfortunately I can’t find that particular blog post or video at the moment.

    Just my thoughts.

    E.

    PS: Moments later I found the blog post: https://paulsellers.com/2016/07/router-cant-shave/

    Veni, vidi, serravi.

    Münster, Germany

    #627508
    allaninoz
    Participant

    A router too young to shave was the post, at least I think that’s the one you mean.

    #627511
    allaninoz
    Participant

    Leonard Lee in his book “The complete guide to sharpening” states that you can put a bevel of 15° and a back bevel of 10° leaving you with an included angle of 25°. If you have a standard bed angle of 20° you are now at a cutting angle of 35°. So pretty much what you are thinking. He does mention that with softer woods you have to be careful of spring back (clearance) but if using for end grain you should be fine. After reading all this I went out to do it to my block plane, but alas – the 15° bevel would sneak under the lever cap on mine.

    #627581
    Roberto Fischer
    Participant

    Thanks, Allan and Ecky!

    Paul mentions a relief angle of just a few degrees being enough so I’m thinking 10 is plenty.

    Allan, maybe with a longer back bevel and shorter front bevel it could work our for you but then it becomes less reversible in the future if that matter to you, since you’d have to grind off a huge back bevel to get back to the flat part!

    I’ll try it out on mine – it has an adjustable mouth and the cap is pretty distant from the edge of the iron that I think the angles will work ok. I’ll come post here once I’ve done it.

    #646137
    Roberto Fischer
    Participant

    Finally writing back… it did work well. It shaved some end grain very nicely, but it also could be that I’ve sharpened it way better than I did the first time around. Now I won’t know if it’s performing any better because I can’t really go back to not having a back bevel unless I grind off a huge portion of the blade. I had no problems with the mouth opening or the lever cap with my plane.

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