Necessary tools to do quality work
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Tagged: Beginner woodworking vise irwin
- This topic has 36 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 11 months ago by SharpPencil.
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2 July 2017 at 9:45 am #313413
Hello all,
I’m a high schooler and really want to start woodworking (I need a new desk for my room and wanted something nice, which pushed me down the path of discovering an interest in being able to build furniture). The reason I mention I’m in high school is that I have limited ability to purchase a lot of tools. Eventually I would like to acquire more but I wanted to check the list of things I plan to work to buy myself to get started:
No.4 plane with two cutting irons- one altered, so I can use it as a scrub plane (I’ve only seen Paul Seller’s use this one)
2 panel saws- rip and crosscut
Dovetail saw
Small set of bench chisels (1″, 3/4″, 1/2″)
Flat-bladed spokeshave
Marking Knife
Marking gauge
sliding bevel
Combination square
straight file
saw file
saw set
oilstone (with coarse and fine side)
sand paper and plate glass (for flattening plane soles and chisels)
piece of leather (for a strop)- and buffing compound
blackened decker workmate (works as a vise and bench until I can build a real workbench
shellac finishI plan to build my own: Joiner’s mallet, winding sticks, and dovetail template
I already happen to own a small set of riffler rasps I use for soapstone carving that I think I could use for woodworking if the need arose.
Is there anything I’m missing? Anything I can cut out? I plan to buy much of this off of eBay and restore it to working order. (I think I have provided for this in thinking about what I have and what I need to buy.) I’m estimating that this will cost $550. Any tips on saving money when getting tools would be appreciated.
2 July 2017 at 12:34 pm #313415Seems like a reasonable list, couple things i would add or change:
Instead of 2 irons, buy a wooden scrub plane or convert one.
That saves you having to constantly swap irons and re-setup the plane all the time and a dedicated scrub works alot better since the mouth is really wide open.Since you are a complete beginner buy a Dozuki or if it has to be Western a small Tennon/Gents saw not a Dovetailsaw.
The Reasons are 1. quite simply versatility, unlike a dovetailsaw you can use a Dozuki for small Tennons and other work too, the depth of cut and lenght of sawplate is just to limiting on dovetailsaws.
2. Dozukis just work right out of the box and at their pricepoint you cant beat them, allowing you to really focus on your sawing rather then having to fettle with the saw, or trying to figure out if its the saws or your problem when a cut goes off line.
The one you wanna get is a Japanese Razorsaw made by GYOKUCHO, for 30 to 40€ you get a top quality saw in terms of performance and cut quality. Oh and for those saying you cant resharpen it, true, but one blade will last a hobbyist a very long time and if it really does get dull you can cut it up for scrapers or shims.As for Chisels you really want a smaller one too, something like a 8 or 6 mm (1/4 “). For smaller work or to clean out Corners with. The usual recommendations are the Aldi ones, Narex, old Stanley or Marples if you can get them.
I can add Stubai to that, the ones that say “Spezial” on the Blade! (and usually have a red plastic handle), those are Industry Standard here, the steels good and the handle can really take a beating. I’m not sure if you can find them though and they are a bit more pricey.Another thing to add is a Hammer with a Plastic and Rubber face, especially handy for assembly or disassembly without damaging your workpiece. A Hardwood mallet isnt the best to use for that purpose not to speak of steel hammers.
Tape Measure and Steel Ruler you want both some of the most used tools for me.
As for Sandpaper be sure to buy quality name brands you wont regret it, and thats about all i can think off atm.
I think it’s a sensible list, but I would add a 1/4 chisel, like Philip said. I would also get some super cheap plane wood or metal as a dedicated scrub. You will need a grinder to put a pronounced camber on the blade though. I just asked a friend to help me with that, haven’t needed a grinder ever since.
If you want an affordable Western dovetail saw that works out of the box, I would get the Veritas.
You could get away with a single 10ppi rip panel saw for rips and cross cuts.
If you get saw that already work right away, you probably won’t need saw files or a saw set at first, though saw files have other uses.
That’s a reasonable list. As for priorities, you can skip the cross-cut saw at the beginning and maybe for quite a while. Rather than buying a dovetail saw, just buy a tenon saw around 12 tpi (13 ppi). Mine is an old Diston, 14″ with 12 tpi. After sharpening and reducing the set, I cut everything with it. I cross cut to length (with a double knife line), cross cut tenon shoulders, rip tenon faces, and cut dovetails. I even make long cuts in ply and solid. I have a fancy LN dovetails saw, and it just sits on the shelf because I can’t be bothered tor each for it when this works just fine. A gents saw is a nice idea but I’d not suggest it on a limited budget because it can be skipped and it is hard to sharpen. 12 tpi you can sharpen, and you must learn to sharpen. Same story for a dozuki. It’s not a bad idea and many people like them, but I think it’s worth committing yourself to learning to sharpen. The 12 tpi tenon saw will do everything except for big ripping down to size. So, you do need one full size rip handsaw. This must be a coarse saw, not a little dinky 10 tpi jobber. Mine is 6 tpi.
Oh. You need a saw set. Make sure it goes to small teeth pitch, like 12 tpi.
I agree you will want a 1/4″ chisel even if just for cleaning shavings out of mortises. You are going to want a 3/8″ chisel for dovetails. Narex aren’t expensive and the Aldi are even cheaper. Many people horded many extra sets of Aldi. I wonder if there’s a way to set up a small purchase? (Alas, I did not). A minimum set of chisels for making a desk is probably 1/4, 3/8, and 1″. The 1/4 and 3/8 emphasize most common mortises and 1″ lets you true up shoulders without nibbling away at it.
For “straight file,” you mean single cut 10″ bastard? If so, I agree. Skip double cut for now. I’d add in a combination “file” which is flat on one side, round on the other, and has 4 types of teeth. It’s really a rasp. Here’s a picture, but if Bahco makes one, that would be better. https://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-Combination-without-American-Half-Round/dp/B006P2X4Q4
If you can find a sensible, inexpensive 6″ steel rule, you will find it helps your accuracy. General 676 is less than $10. This is *not* essential. You can just use your combination square, but I do find it handy.
My biggest worry is the workmate. I’m afraid it will move around on you too much. Maybe others can comment on this aspect. I am also nervous about the oilstone. If you get the right one, you’ll be fine, but many will not do the trick. I don’t have much experience with oil stones, so I’ll let others comment.
One panel saw instead of two will save a good amount of money.
I don’t know of a way to sharpen a saw without a vise of some sort. I would avoid sharpening saws at this stage. Most home center saws I have seen cross cut well, and they can be had for 16 bucks new if you need a cross cut.
You also forgot clamps. 24-inch bar clamps are the ones I use the most. Pipe clamps work well too and you can just get new pipe at the home center if you need different sizes. Look at eBay.
I would recommend the Thorex hammer Paul uses, with a soft (grey) side and a hard (white) side. Saves you from buying a rubber hammer and building a mallet.
Make sure you have good natural or artificial lighting.
You will want a brace and auger bits at some point. An egg beater drill too.
Have you seen Paul’s new book on hand tools? If you don’t have it, I would start there.
I agree with ed’s point about the 12-inch tenon saw. Take a look at the Veritas carcass saw. But you can also cut small tenons with a dovetail saw and large ones with a fine rip panel saw. So don’t discount your initial strategy.
I keep mentioning the Veritas saws because they are the cheapest way I know of experiencing a well sharpened western joinery saw. I want to know what sharp feels like, for all your tools.
Sharpening saws is an important skill, but I feel it may turn out to be more expensive right now than buying something affordable that works very well out of the box (Veritas). So, I’d either go all new and working out of the box (leaving saw set and saw files and vise for later) or all cheap but sharpenable for saws. If you mix the two strategies, you will spend more than you have to out of the gate, I think.
I haven’t used a dozuki, but as Philip said, that may be a way to save too.
Oops. We missed a biggie. Clamps. You’re going to need clamps. For a desk, you’re going to need bar clamps of some kind, but you’ll likely need other kinds, too. For bar clamps, you can go Paul’s route and get the cheap ones at Harbor Freight. They need to be tuned (see his video). Another option is pipe clamps. Pony sells 1/2″ and 3/4″ hardware that go onto piping. See http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pony-Adjustable-3-4-in-Pipe-Clamp-50-2PK/100132368 for an example of the 1/2″. You buy pipe separately. In theory, you can have various lengths of pipe laying about and reuse the pony hardware, which makes it more economical. On the other hand, pipe clamps roll around and, if you don’t take care, you can leave marks on your work from the pipe. But they absolutely work. The jaws do have limited reach, but are comparable to Pauls cheap bar clamps. The pipe needs to be threaded on at least one end. Check for the proper thread. If I buy pipe at home depot, they’ll cut the threads for you. I think the’ll do one free thread but often, if they’re not busy, they’ll let me buy 10′ pipe and then they’ll do a few cuts with threading for free. Depends on how bored the clerk is. If they are really in a good mood, thread both ends and buy a couple couplers. Then you can extend the lengths of the pipe.
I’m not sure that I’d suggest pipe clamps over Paul’s, but work out the dollars and cents and decide. You may find alternatives that let you construct clamps of various kinds. I would not buy hand screws at this point and probably not C-clamps. Small bar clamps, e.g., https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-quick-release-bar-clamp-62237.html, are much more useful. I’ve not used the clamp I just pasted in, but that gives you the idea.
Clamps. Curse ’em and bless ’em.
I’ll join the chorus on recommending a 1/4″ chisel.
And the saws — dump the dovetail saw, and replace it with a carcass saw, or some other medium tenon saw or even a dozuki. A larger (but still backed) saw will be useful in more situations. Also, you don’t need a rip and a crosscut panel saw for starters, just get a rip saw. It’ll crosscut decently if you keep it sharp. So just a rip saw and a backed saw of medium size.
I also agree with the separate scrub plane, but if you can’t find a good wooden one, nothing wrong with a restored metal plane. Whatever is cheap and available and allows you to keep the throat of your general use plane nice and tight.
As for sharpening, the “scary sharp” (glass + sandpaper) method is cheaper in the short-term, so if you’re not sure which method of sharpening you’ll eventually settle on, perhaps skip the oilstone and just commit to glass+sandpaper for everything, since you’ve already got it budgeted. That way, if you eventually decide to settle on, say, diamond plates like Paul, you won’t have wasted money on the oilstone. A honing guide might be helpful, too, unless you’re already confident in sharpening free-hand. You can get a cheap, Eclipse-style honing guide, and “tune” it, and it’ll do a decent job.
Also, you’re not going to get very far without some glue and clamps. You can watch Paul’s video on making cam clamps for light-duty clamping, but unless you have access to welding equipment, you’ll need to buy probably around 8 bar clamps to start…I think Paul used 8 in the workbench-making video series. The cheapest ones I know run around 15 bucks each in the USA: https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-aluminum-bar-clamp-60540.html
You’ll need to “tune” them (Paul has a blog entry on this), and also wait until you can get one of Harbor Freight’s many coupons, which will bring the price down a good bit.Also a straight edge and tape measure. Tape measure is cheap, and you’ll need it for anything beyond what your combo square can measure, and the straight edge for checking flat / straight beyond what your combo square can manage. If you’re just going to make tiny projects, ignore this and the clamps, too.
The list looks reasonable and I agree in many points with @kamikazekrieger.
I’m not sure, whether I should agree the recommendation of a japanese saw. On the pro side (additionally to the arguments of @kamikazekrieger) are: after trying it, you know, whether you like to saw at the pull stroke. On the con side: once you begin to work with resharpenable western saws, you have to learn how to sharpen it anyway and how to interpret sawing errors correct them (eg. too much set).
I started with cheap western saws. It was awful. Then I bought a japanese saw: much better – and it’s still sharp, despite sawing several meters of plywood. But: sawing on the pull stroke is a bit awkward to me, so I switched back to western saws – with all the consequences. Ymmv.
My personal recommendation for the first saws: handsaw for rip cutting and a tenon or japanese saw.The marking gauge was was one of the first tools I made myself: The Poor Man’s Beading and Marking Tool by. Mr. Sellers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZnh7VHz_T4
Later I built this one: https://nerdpol.ch/posts/5d58f15083670134d20452540061b601
(nowadays I’d choose a larger diameter for the beam)
That leads to one possible missing tool on the list: If you don’t have a cordless drill, you need a brace and some auger bits and perhaps an eggbeater handdrill.If you don’t have special purposes for the oil stone, I’d not purchase one. For the first time, sand paper on the glass plate works works well. At this time I recommend to save money for good diamond plates. Currently I do sharpening on waterstones but it requires effort to keep them flat, eg. to hone the back sides of chisels and plane irons.
If you already own a B&D Workmate or have the opportunity to borrow one, it will be ok. I worked on a similar Bosch PWB 600 and it was rather wobbly. That wasn’t fun. If your approach is some kind of “bootstrapping”, I recommend that you build a simple sturdy sawbench first. It IS possible for a beginner to build something like that: http://www.infixiert.org/img/20161019_ms_0001.jpg – or as the MkII version: https://www.infixiert.org/img/sawbench_mkii.jpg with additional clamping opportunities and a planing stop: https://www.infixiert.org/img/hw/20170529_hw_0002.jpg
Until now my mostly (>95%) used chisel is the 20mm (3/4″) wide one.
A year ago I bought a cheap chisel set (similar to the Aldi chisels) – can’t recommend it: no considerable edge retention, despite I honed them fairly steep (>30°), convex back sides, loose ferrules, and probably we better not ask for the conditions they’re produced under.
I also own a Two Cherries 20mm chisel: good steel, but still convex back, even after round about one hour honing the back…
So I recommend to purchase higher quality chisels. My chisels made by MHG: https://www.mhg-shop.de/shopping_cart.php?language=en&Probably it makes sense to purchase a simple honing guide, in particular to restore the basic edge geometry of a chisel or a plane iron.
Hope this helps,
E.
PS: Please note: My recommendations and opinions are based of fresh beginner’s experiences.
@gpfreitas point about starting with a sharp saw is a good one. If you’re going to buy a new saw, the Veritas carcass saw (12″, 12 tpi, *rip*) is a good pick. I’ve really come to like my larger 14″ saw, but the 12″ one @gpfreitas mentions is what most people get. Be warned…a new, sharp Veritas saw is going to be grabby and will feel like it gets stuck. It’s you, not the saw. : – ).
A bench/horse hybrid like the one that @eckyh showed, or even a variation of Paul Seller’s saw horse (somewhat taller, wider) would be a big improvement on the workmate. Someone in these forums has done that.
That said, if you can brace the workmate (or whatever else) against a wall, you can probably get away with it in the beginning.
But I’ll be honest, I went though a similar procedure recently, and I hated it until I had decent workholding capabilities. My current setup is a Homedepot prebuilt workbench, with foldable legs (2x4s and a MDF top, I glued a pine board on top). It’s wobbly as anything, but I braced it against a wall, and now it’s firm. Then I installed a small, steel, quick-release vise. In hindsight, if I was going to brace against the wall anyway, I could have just built some braces and a top myself with screws. After I installed the vise, I was happy, it was so much faster than the “clamp juggling act” I had before.
Another idea: if you have a sturdy sitting bench that you don’t mind banging on, don’t discount sitting on it and using it as a workbench either. You can use your weight to stabilize the bench, _and_, for larger stock, you can sit on the wood too. Yep, not ideal, but something you can do before you build something better.
2 July 2017 at 5:32 pm #313429Oh right Clamps yeah you’re never gonna have enough of them, ever.
Since we all sorta agree to dump the Dovetailsaw, if you get a Gyokucho Dozuki or the Veritas Carcass saw pretty much depends on price and preference, both will work just fine.
Depends on your location for me i could get 2 Dozukis for the price of one Carcass saw, thats the main reason i recommend them to absolut beginners.For a beginner its most important to have a saw that just works right out of the box, which is the other reason, and since you’ll need a Panelsaw/Handsaw anyways its better to learn sharpening on that since, the teeth are larger, and neither set nor picturebook perfect teeth are as critical as on the smaller saws for fine work.
Agreed skip the Oilstone, to specific.
For Starters get a Waterstone, you get a decent Combi-Stone for 10 to 25€, the german Zische worked quite well for me I’m sure theres a good equivalent on Japanese Waterstones too.
Thats not the kinda money thats gonna haunt you if you dont use it in the end, but it allows you to really learn properly without needing to fiddle around with Sandpaper.
Apart from Flattening the stones from time to time.HOWEVER beware theres a Massive difference between western Grit Size and Japanese, 1000 Grit means something very very different in either, a 1000 JIS is equivalent to a 400 FEPA or 500 ANSI while 1000 FEPA is equivalent to a 3000 JIS.
Honing guide is nice to have but cant say i ever really needed one.
A Quick point on drills, buy a corded one, the cordless drills actually worth a damn are way overkill for you right now. It really does pay off to save up for a Makita, blue Bosch, Milwaukee or such. The Corded variants are usually cheaper and will most likely last you alot longer, lifespan on modern batteries is decent but still.
You’re gonna need one anyways if you ever wanna mount a Shelf or something to a wall, good luck drilling through Concrete or Bricks with a Brace and Bit.Edit: A Brace&Bit/Handdrill is still damn handy to have though and worth getting. If you can get one for a reasonable price, which i myself have some difficulty atm.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Philipp J..
2 July 2017 at 5:57 pm #313431I started out a few weeks ago as an absolute beginner in woodworking. While restoring old tools is nice and might be cheaper, keep in mind, that you will have soo many skills to learn doing the actual woodworking, stacking the other skills like restoring old planes and saws on top of that, might pile up to a mountain of skills too high to master in the beginning.
I started out with an old wooden plane, watched lots of videos and thought, that might be not that hard. The “problem” is, that you don’t have any experience or knowledge about how that tool is supposed to feel in your hand, how easy or hard it is to do the actual work. Once you have an idea how a tool is supposed to behave, restoring a tool to get close to that point is a lot easier than doing it from scratch with no experience at all.
I will not say, that this will be impossible, but it will be a steeper learning curve.With that in mind, I’d say that going for a used metal #4-plane might be an okay idea. You definatly need to learn to sharpen the blade anyway. At one point I gave in and got a new no #4 plane, because I was really unhappy with the old wooden plane.
I’d go with a japanese ryoba saw as a first saw. You don’t need to sharpen it and keep that skill for a later time and you get a crosscut and a ripsaw in one saw. It might not be that long as a usual handsaw but you can handle 4 by 4 material with it with no problem.I had a wobbly workmate knockoff which I used to build my current “workbench”, which is basicly just an oversized sawhorse, adapting the dimensions of the Paul Sellers sawhorse and following his videos.
Tools used as far as I remember:
– ryoba saw
– combination square
– sliding bevel
– 20mm / 3/4″ chisel
– wooden/ nylon hammer
– drill with drillbit & countersink bit
– screwdriver
– tape measure
– some cheap knife with disposable bladesLink to a thread about the sawbench:
In hindight, the combination angle of the legs proved to be tricky for a beginner, there is another design by Christopher Schwarz, that might be more easy.
http://contrib1.wkfinetools.com/cSchwarz/sawBench/Sawbench-1.pdfA workmate and this sawbench got one thing in common, both are way to light to work for planing. You will push the workmate around. I can prop the sawbench against a wall though and it will not move, which you cannot do properly with the workmate. I padded one end with cork, which was actually a cork pot coaster from Ikea.
My second “project” was a dovetail template and winding sticks. I made these out of one storebought piece of beech with the proper width and thickness. I just made sure, that I got a really straight one. Beech was not the best wood to use, as I was told later.
Tools:
– ryoba saw
– 3/4″ chisel
– hammer
– combination square
– sliding bevel
– tape measure
– marking gauge
– plane, depending on the woodI just used a black marker for the dark line of the one winding stick and marking the middle of the sticks.
You’ll absolutly want a benchhook. I made one with a little apron instead of a cleat, so I can clamp stuff. A benchhook can also act as a makeshift shooting board.
Benchhook turned sideways:
Tools:
– ryoba saw
– dovetail template
– 3/4″ chisel & hammer/ mallet
– combination square
– plane
– tape measure
– marking gaugeA nice thing to have is an improvised “moxon vise” until you get a proper bench.
All of the above can be build by a beginner with a limited toolset and those little helpers will help you along the way.
So my tool recommendation apart from the tools used for the mentioned projects:
– a fine saw, be it a dovetail/ tenon/ carcass saw or a japanese dozuki saw. I went with the dozuki
– a few more chisels in different sizes
– lots of clamps, for clamping stuff to your workbench, whatever that might be and for glueing stuff together
– sharpening tools for chisel/ plane blade ( and saw, if you go the western route).
– drillbits & drill, be it a manual one or a power tool of some sorts.
– marking knife of some sorts
– card scraper & burnisher are nice to have, to remove pencil marks.
– if you don’t plan to work on curves or round stuff, you can get the spokeshave later.Here is a tool recommendation for a starting kit from the Renaissance Woodworker:
A video worthwhile to watch.
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