Record 52 1/2 vice slipping

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #781468
    Peter
    Participant

    I have an old well used Record 52 1/2 QR vice. The front jaw shows the patent number so I estimate it is 1930s-40s production.
    When I got it I gave it a good good cleanup and lubrication.

    Now, I have finally fitted it to the workbench I finished last week. To my surprise it slips under torque. The QR handle starts to move towards the main handle. This was not obvious when off the bench. The strange thing is it does it only for the first about 4″. When the wise is wide open it does not slip at all. I have already readjusted the clutch spring but that did not help.

    I am wondering, is it the main screw that is worn out? If I am to get an new (well another) one do I need to buy also a matching half nut?

    #781471
    Darren
    Participant

    Hi,

    Does it constantly slip or just as you try to tighten it?

    Mine often slips on first tightening after I have used the QR, I am in the habit of winding the handle anti-clockwise to fully re-engage the QR.

    I’m sure I’ve seen Paul do that in one of his videos.

    D.

    #781475
    Peter
    Participant

    It slips when tightening up. When the jaws touch and I keep tightening it the QR handle starts moving towards the screw – the half nut moving downwards away from the screw. This happens only if the jaws are open less then about 4″. It feels like the screw is not “biting” into the nut and instead doing exactly opposite.

    So as a result, I can clamp pieces wider than 4″ without an issue. For everything smaller I need to hold the QR with one hand and tighten the vice with other hand. A wedge might be used however I do not want to loose the QR function.

    #781476
    Darren
    Participant

    Hi,

    As an experiment try winding the handle anti-clockwise before tightening on something, you should see the QR handle “bounce” and then move to the right.

    D.

    #781477
    Peter
    Participant

    Already tried. Did not help.

    #781481
    Darren
    Participant

    Hi,

    That’s a shame 😀

    Okay, when you say you cleaned the vise did you take apart and clean the box section where the QR bar connects to the “dog”?

    If not, that is the next thing I would try.

    Have you visually examined the teeth on the relevant part of the screw? Can you see any damage or wear? Is there any wear on the dog?

    Lastly, what lube did you use when re-assembling the box section?

    D.

    #781485
    Peter
    Participant

    Yes, the vice was completely taken apart and all bits were cleaned individually. No obvious damage on the half nut. Also the screw does not have any pitting or any obvious mechanical damage probably thanks to the screw cover it came with.
    I used a not branded multi purpose oil – nothing special to be honest.

    #781487
    Darren
    Participant

    I’m a bit stumped to be honest.

    The only time I’ve experienced repeated jumping is when I had the QR spring too loose, and so it wasn’t holding the dog against the drive screw tightly enough… How did you fit it? Do you have any photos of it off and on the vise?

    Ahhhh… this just sprang to mind: the QR rod needs to on the right way. The wrong way puts it slightly to the left (i.e. slightly out of the slot under the dog), so making it more likely to jump out under load. Also, if the QR rod is not screwed down at the right angle (i.e. deflecting away from the dog slightly) that might make it jump out.

    Either the bar is jumping out of the dog, or the dog is jumping off the drive screw.

    I would get under the vise and have a look at the bar and the dog while someone else is operating it to try narrow down what is going on.

    D.

    D.

    #781490
    Peter
    Participant

    Yes, I know about the QR bar. The hole for the screw is slightly offset. Guess how I found out 🙂

    The QR spring is tight, really tight. It is hard work to squeeze the QR handle. It is holding the half nut on the drive screw just fine when the jaws are wide open. However, that does not seem to be strong enough for the first 4″ or so.

    It is definitely the dog (or half nut as I call it) that is jumping off the drive screw – already checked that.

    #781492
    Darren
    Participant

    Really scraping the barrel here (I am intrigued what could be causing this!), is the QR bar bent in any way? I’m wondering if the first 4″ is taking the pressure off the dog?

    Something is not right with the QR spring / bar, it shouldn’t be that hard to turn it either? Maybe whatever that problem is is not letting the dog fully engage on the drive screw? Is the QR lever easier to move when the vise is only 4″ open (rather than fully open), i.e. not under as much tension?

    D.

    #781493
    Peter
    Participant

    QR bar is straight. I deliberately adjusted the spring to the max possible tension. Perhaps could go one more step tighter but not more.

    #781495
    Darren
    Participant

    I’ll go and have a detailed look at mine this evening after work, this is quite a conundrum!

    D.

    #781496
    Darren
    Participant

    Okay, one more thing before I go:

    I’m picking up on what you said about spring tension.

    The spring only goes into the back of the face of the vise one way. The spring only connects to the castellated nut one way.

    When fitting mine have the vise upside down on the bench. I fit the castellated nut to the spring, that assembly into the face of the vise, then slot the QR Lever in so it is one turn away from being in the right position. I then fit the QR bar into the castellated nut and twist it, so tightening up the QR spring. When the lever is in the right position I slip the end of the bar into the loose QR dog, and then tighten the dog cover down. Then I put the screw in the QR lever to secure the bar.

    I’m wondering if you have too much tension? Maybe let it off one turn and see what happens? I’m wondering if the spring is deforming somehow on short openings and affecting the dog? When the vise is more open the play in the bar would be mitigating any deformity?

    D.

    #781501
    Peter
    Participant
    #781512
    Darren
    Participant

    I’ll do the same so we can compare.

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