Rip Saws – Bad technique or equipment problems?
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3 February 2015 at 4:52 pm #124299
I’m having trouble ripping wood. In fact, when it matters, I use a power jig saw at this point.
I’ve got a Diston 8 rip saw with 5.5 ppi. It’s a heavy beast with a lovely handle and when I get it going it FLIES through wood. But getting it going is problematic. Normally those giant teeth make a couple of 1/4″ deep holes in the end of the board and any attempt to start on that line from then on drops the saw into those holes and that’s all she wrote.
When I DO get it started too often I find I’ve split a chip off the back of the board instead of cutting through it. Assuming I get it started without chipping the back then occasionally the board will split lengthwise.
While I usually just blame myself for problems like this at this point I’m looking at the saw. I think I’ve got too much saw for ripping the 1″ and thinner stock I’m usually cutting. On top of that I think the saw MAY not have enough set as well. The plate is straight and I oil it before starting a board. I also had it sharpened by a local shop with a good reputation.
So what do you think? Do I actually “need” an additional saw or am I just the kind of ham fisted klutz who actually could accidentally shoot himself in the head with a bow and arrow?
John
John, it’s too much saw for a thin board. 5.5 tpi rip saws are pretty good at ripping 2 inch stock but for 1 inch and thinner I tend to go with a 8 to 10 tpi saw (usually 8). I sharpen my rip saws with a bit of a rake to make the saw a bit less aggressive and more comfortable to use.
3 February 2015 at 6:15 pm #124302Thanks Dave. I’m looking at a 9ppi rip saw by lynx. The price is above my “blink” point (okay, it’s well into my “throw myself on the floor and have a tantrum” point) but it’s starting to look like my best bet I think.
John
Don’t discount second hand, garage sales, local buy & sells etc. you’ll have to clean and sharpen them but you can usually pick up inexpensive saws.
Here’s a good set of hand saws, my top three
1. 5.5 or 6 tpi rip
2. 8-9 tpi rip
3. 8-10 tpi xcutThese three will be all you need till you start wanting specific saws for hardwood vs softwood. You can deny it now but you’ll come over to the darkside eventually and have around 10 handsaws 🙂
i think your saw will benefit from “progressive” filing, check out Pauls videos on sharpening saws. A progressive filing will make it easier to start sawing. splitting lengthwise is probably down to technique. You are probably moving your hand to one side thereby pushing the saw through the timber at an angle. If you push too hard on the forward stroke your will split the timber if its thin enough, or if its thick enough to resist splitting, you will bend/kink the saw blade. If you notice a bit of side to side vibration of the saw blade on the back stroke, its an indication that you are not moving your hand back and forth in a straight line. Relax your arm, concentrate on keeping the saw perpendicular (side to side) to the timber and “let the saw do the work”, don’t force it.
John,
from what I have read, you should look to have about 6 teeth in the cut when you are sawing.
To echo what Dave said, a 5.5 ppi saw is good for thicker stock and something like an 8 or 9ppi would be good for 3/4″ thick stock.
I have a 5.5ppi and a 7ppi. I got a 9ppi crosscut. These are all at 26″ for cutting down the stock to rough size.
I also have a couple of shorter saws. One at 10 ppi and another at 12 ppi, which I may file crosscut.
All of these I got for about $5 each. Look at Habitat Restore or online. Even Ebay.
Seattle Craigslist shows some too. A guy in Enumclaw has a couple there. They’d need sanding, but they’d work. One is a Sandvik, which is a good brand.
That Disston is too big for what you’re doing. Save your money on the Lynx and buy some old saws and some saw files instead. That’s my opinion.
4 February 2015 at 2:07 am #124312I’ve got a good collection of old saws now including two rip saws but I haven’t seen any rip saws around here with more than 5 or 6 ppi. I plan to sharpen my own saws but to get started I’d like to have some confidence the saw is cut, sharpened, and set correctly.
Something I have found that seems to help me start rip cuts is to try to saw in the air just above where I want to cut – i.e. to start moving the saw without it actually touching the wood. I have to be careful to keep it lined up, but so long as I’m paying attention, this seems to work well.
I’m a novice with saw sharpening, etc. but I’ve bought some good, used saws at garage sales, etc. for between $5-$10 each. The blades were straight – I just cleaned them up and touched them up with a file a little bit. (Filing for a Rip cut is simpler than filing for xcut). Probably not working as well as they could, but still better than any “modern” saw I’ve used in the last 25 years or so.
You can make them easier to start by using a less aggressive rake near the toe of the saw. I’ve tried this (on a couple old, inexpensive saws) and just eyeballed it for the first couple inches. That worked fine and made starting the saw notably easier. Might be easier yet, if I were more precise. But just eyeballing, novice, etc. still improved things. Go for it! (I think more TPI near the toe would work, too, but unless you’ve got to recut the teeth, probably no point in that.)
Paul’s got a great video about sharpening saws. I also like the page at http://norsewoodsmith.com/book/export/html/84 for it’s discussion and pictures.
cheers,
skg4 February 2015 at 12:57 pm #124338SKG, That Norsewood article is outstanding. Thanks for sharing….
4 February 2015 at 2:30 pm #124344John, I think that 5-er is too much saw for that size stock for sure. I have one of those Disstons with that tooth count and I don’t even know how you manage to get the saw started on 1″ boards.
Take a look on Ebay or yard sales for a 10 tpi panel saw, something about 20″. It will probably be xcut, but just refile it rip. Look for a “warranted superior” or off-brand one that people on Ebay won’t bid the hell out of and you can probably get it for $20 or less. That size saw works great on small stock that you need to rip (or even cross-cut) down to size.
4 February 2015 at 4:50 pm #124358John, As others have already said, 5 1/2 tooth is hardly ideal for 1 inch stock. I have several old Disston rip saws that are similarly toothed but have the two handed grip (the extra hole in the handle). I’ve used them to rip one inch boards before to develop my sawing technique and find that if I use my left thumb in the extra hole to slightly lift up on the saw when beginning the cut, it can be made to work. It’s easy to dig the teeth into the work with just the weight of the saw so lightening it really helps at the start. Once the cut is started it also helps to angle the saw so as to get more teeth in the cut. Not the ideal tool for the job but it can work and help develop one’s skill. If you have other saws in the 8 – 9 tooth range and can have one re-sharpened to rip teeth per Paul’s video it would be easier.
Cheers
4 February 2015 at 5:25 pm #124359I’ll echo the suggestion to look at garage sales, etc. You can always get that nice saw a little later after you save up a bit of money. I recently picked up 3 hand saws at estate sales for a grand total of $3.50 (yes, for all 3). One of those saws has become my go-to rip saw for things like this. It’s a no-name saw, and it’s missing one of the saw nuts in the handle, but it works just fine after a sharpening, and the price was right. If it turns out that you got a lemon, you’re only out a few bucks. Just make sure the plate is straight.
4 February 2015 at 8:18 pm #124368You have been given some excellent advise here, I personally prefer “cheap” or in-expensive vintage saws. Like Disston Atkins, etc. I have bought most of my saws form another woodworking forum in the S&S called Woodnet.net, there are a couple regulars who all ways have nice saws to sell, grant it they are not $2 type saws but range from $25 – $50 depending on age and shape. Good Luck !
Steve
4 February 2015 at 11:50 pm #124379I don’t think there ought to be too much problem with your saw cutting 1in stock. My choice for ripping 1in would be my large 4point, less than 1in thick I would pick 7point.
The size of the corner is the same if your stock is 1in or 10in thick, so large-toothed saws will always be hard to start. I pull back a couple of times alongside my thumb: a technique I suspect most will be familiar with but which I know Mr Sellers isn’t fond of, I assume because it can be less accurate. I find it does work better for starting bigger saws though.
I guess it depends too on the size of the stock and the way it’s held; are you supporting the board on horses and ripping down the length, or holding small bits in the vice? For the latter the bigger saw might be too much to handle but for the former I’d say it’s just right.
Splitting down the length of the board suggests to me that the saw could sometimes be twisting in the cut.
Matt
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