Rip Saws – Bad technique or equipment problems?
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John,
I have got a D8 rip saw few days ago, assuming from the plate etch manufactured before 1928. On the plate it says 6 TPI but it’s more like 5 TPI.
Because it’s a new purchase I haven’t used it much yet but I can rip a 18 mm (3/4 inch) thick pine board without any problems: fast, smooth, easy and straight. And what’s more without much tearing out on the front and back side of the board, not much more than with my finer toothed Ryoba (about 8 tpi). That was very surprising for me. Well the front face of the teeth are on close look slightly slanted by a hair and not perpendicular. So it buys me some time to get saw files and a saw set.
Although I am very very new in woodworking and I have worked only with softwood yet my D8 might be exemplary for that a 5 tpi rip saw could work on thinner boards.
A too little set might be a problem as you mentioned. I would give a try.
Je
GermanyIf the saw gets stuck, it’s a good indication there isn’t enough set. If it’s a really rough and hard to use, it could be unevenly set, such that the teeth catch, or it could be blunt.
5 1/2 TPI is a really rough ripping saw, for approximate dimensioning of stock. It’s supposed to be fast and ugly. You WILL get a certain amount of the wood peeling or splitting out the back of the cut, especially with lower pitches. So keep the saw you have now for rough cuts and long rips, but get something with a finer pitch for your everyday.
As for technique, there are a few things you can try to troubleshoot. For starting, it’s important to remember you don’t want downward force as you saw. The force should be behind the saw teeth, rather than into the wood. If you find you have to push into the wood to cut, your saw is blunt.
Further to the first point, to start the cut you might find it useful to lift the saw up a bit as you start the cut, to sort of nibble at it. Once the cut tracks the full depth of the board, you should be able to go with a little more confidence.
Continuing on the theme, you could try to decrease the angle of the cut, to have more teeth in contact with the cutting surface at a time. There isn’t really a hard and fast rule for it, just experiment and find what works for you.
Lastly, ensure your whole arm is aligned with the cut. If your stance isn’t good and your elbow kicks out, you can easily bind in the cut and wind up bending or kinking your saw. It’s not fun and it’s really jarring on the old joints.
What others have said is true. Keep your eyes open for dirt cheap old saws. If you need a saw for a particular job, you’re halfway there already, and if it’s too far gone to save, you can often re-purpose the plates for other things.
If you are concerned there might be a problem with the saw, post some photos, particularly of the toothline. For the most part though, I think you’re bringing a bazooka to a bowls tournament. I hope you find this comment helpful.
I thought I’d post a follow up to this.
First, the lack of being able to rip NOW was really frustrating me so I winced and ordered a Pax ripcut handsaw (8tpi) from Dieter Schmid – Fine Tools (http://www.fine-tools.com/). I like their prices and service. So much so I went back and ordered a Liogier rasp this month.
Once the beautiful saw arrived I was ripping like nobody’s business! I still drift a bit, mostly right but occasionally to the Left just for variety. But at least I can cut wood! No splitting, little binding, and much closer to the mark than I ever had been able to achieve with my Diston.
For the record, I’m not complaining about the quality of the Diston. I’m saying my suspicions about how well my Diston was set up have been confirmed in my mind. I just looked at another Diston saw, this one cross cut, “sharpened” by the same company and by now I know enough to see several problems. At least every 4th or 5th tooth has a shiny flat spot on top, not all the teeth are level, and it’s a rare tooth that has a clean file mark all the way across the face. A couple of years ago when I paid to have this done I didn’t know enough to be critical of the work. Things have changed.
I want to thank everyone for their feedback and suggestions. I especially want to thank skg and mooncabbage for the suggestion that it wasn’t enough to not push down when starting a rip. Both recommended that I lift up a bit when starting a rip and that has made a world of difference when starting a cut.
Now that I know what “right” feels like I’m going back and re-watching the videos recommended here and I’ll take my files to some of the older no name saws and work my way up to the good ones.
Again, thanks to all who responded. Nice to know I’ve got a resource like you when I’m out of my depth.
John
I have a 6 tpi and have no problems in 1″ or less if the case. And you should use these saws on a saw horse trying to use a 26″ or above saw in a vice is just silly trying to use up ward force.
These rip saws you really meant to use downward pressure.
Start the cut at a very low angle 5 to 15 degrees work up to 45 degrees then get to optimal ripping cut at 60 degrees.
Let the saw do the bloody work like all saws if you get more skilled more downward thrust can be applied.
As for set for site work I use to over set saw a little timber never great but made it easier to get through timber.
I also relax tooth geometry by anout 4 degrees.So over set teeth see how you get on if wondering to much use hammer trick to take bit of set off. Continue until feel is right and practice.
Yes you do use these saws in a vice but that is for resawing a board in half in its thickness and you can use 2 gauge lines and saw in between them and work from both edges. Or use a small groove made by a plough plane saw in the groove from either side. Also there is a kerfing saw looks a bit like a wooden plough plane but has a saw plate fitted instead of a cutter and make a groove for saw to follow. See Tom Fidgen .
Good, John. Glad it has come out favorably. A little perseverance is always required when dealing with new things. Have fun sawing …
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