Stanley 1244 'defiant' smoother

This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Brian A 7 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #553700

    Brian A
    Participant

    After some flea market footwork I acquired a $42 box of rusty old planes that are missing parts. The box included a smoother, which is what I wanted, but it is a Stanley 1244 ‘Defiant’ type, which looks more primitive than the #4’s people usually use. It has a slightly loose rear handle (wiggles a bit laterally) and needs a blade ($22 from ebay, on order). Is this going to be ok as a smoother?

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    • This topic was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Brian A.
    #553704

    Larry Geib
    Participant

    The Defiance line was made by Stanley for resellers as a less expensive alternative to the top of the line planes.most of the differences are related to a cheaper lateral adjuster and less time spent in finish.
    It also doesn’t have a frog adjuster screw but either did the oldest ,WWII, or newest Baileys.

    It will function indistiguishably from a standard Bailey if you take it through Paul’s tuneup steps.

    #553710

    Dave Ring
    Participant

    Like other cheap planes, this can be made to work but I wouldn’t advise putting any significant amount of money into it.

    IMHO the most important difference between the Defiance and Bailey blanes is the lack of machining on the mating surfaces between the frog and the plane body and on top of the frog where it supports the iron. These surfaces are left as cast.

    I suppose that these surfaces could be hand lapped to bring them up to Bailey standards but I doubt that it would be worth the effort.

    What else did you find?

    #553711

    Brian A
    Participant

    This plane has the frog as an integral part of the base, so definitely no adjusting there! It also has no lateral adjuster (unless it does but the part is missing, need to look into that).

    I also need to figure out how to remove the play in the handle. Either the wood is worn on the inside at the contact points, or the bolt threads in the base may be worn. Will get a picture of that on later.

    The other planes were 1) a hybrid metal/wood smoother with all fasteners missing and a cracked wood base that I glued up yesterday, and 2) An enormous metal jointing plane with all moving parts rusted together. 3) an unimpressive looking block plane that needs a little cleanup. 4) a rusty brace that still works and some rusty augers for it. Need to look up the model numbers on these once I get them out of the vinegar vat.

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    • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Brian A.
    #553713

    Dave Ring
    Participant

    Wow! I’ve never seen a Defiance smoother with a cast-in-place frog. That’s REALLY cheap construction. It must be newer than mine.

    On the whole, that was a pretty fair haul for $42, especialy if you can get the jointer up and rockin’.

    Dave

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Dave Ring.
    #553715

    Brian A
    Participant

    @dave – not sure how new. The model with the mobile frog seems to be 1243 and this one is 1244, so that would imply a later model. I guess if there is no adjuster then it might as well be part of the base? If it turns out to be a dud I could turn it into a scrub perhaps, and keep working on getting a smoother elsewhere.

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    #553716

    Brian A
    Participant

    [quote quote=553713]

    On the whole, that was a pretty fair haul for $42, especialy if you can get the jointer up and rockin’.

    Dave[/quote]

    Perhaps, but now my shop looks like the saturday night ER for wounded planes.

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    #553724

    Brian A
    Participant

    Here are the pictures of the 1244 and also the ‘undersea garden’ of other rusty tools.

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    #553731

    entitydigital
    Participant

    Regarding the handle there are a couple of things you could try if you haven’t already.

    1. File off a very small amount of the length of the threaded rod. They are sometimes very slightly too long, especially if the handle has shrunk.

    2. Put a small pad of material under the handle, the rubber foam shelf/drawer liner stuff is ideal.

    I did both on my 5 1/2 and it’s rock solid. Hope that helps.

    #553733

    Dave Ring
    Participant

    Actually my Defiance plane is a 1204 (1924-1953) which is a significantly cheapened version of the Bailey N0.4. The 1244 (1939-1955) is a VERY cheap tool which only superficially resembles the classic Bailey design, having only very weak support for the iron. BTW the last digit of the model number indicates the size of the plane. The 1243 and 1244 are the size of the Bailey No.3 and No.4, respectively.

    If you ned a good smoother, that wood bodied (“transitional”) plane would probably be a better candidate.

    The jointer appears to be a Type 17 (WWII period) Bailey and is well worth rehabbing.

    Dave

    #553734

    Brian A
    Participant

    @entitydigital – I might try just the padding first. The nut tightens down pretty well but I think the holes in the handle have worked themselves to be a bit too large near the base. The other option might be to fill the holes and bore them out again?

    @davering – Yes, I am semi-optimistic about the transitional plane. The mouth is an issue as there are cracks in it, but it is still shaped correctly so probably can just stabilize those cracks with glue. It also needs more hardware.

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    #554362

    Brian A
    Participant

    So far this flea market haul has been a nearly complete bust. The blade I bought for the 1244 was 1/8″ too wide (so maybe I got the model number wrong?), so now I’m wondering what plane this blade really belongs to. I may try to file it down to size? So now I’ve spent almost as much money as I would have for a complete 1244 plus time needed to fix the handle and modify the blade, all to get an apparently low-end plane.

    The jointer plane’s frog remained immovable despite soaking for two weeks in vinegar. The screw for the handle also snapped off (what would one use to bore a new hole in the base?).

    After repairing the wooden part (while the metal was soaking) I noticed the transitional plane has a broken part on the metal body (the part that pivots in the front) so that seems like it is going to be a paperweight.

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