The Hounds Bench
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Building a bench for sitting on out of a new sleeper that I had left over from building steps up to my workshop. Decided to used a hounds tooth like the one Paul teaches in the wall bracket project. This is a dry fit of the first leg. First time I’ve cut a joint like this, it’s so stout.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.15 July 2018 at 5:29 pm #549387That’s a great looking joint! I’m a little curious about the orientation though. Why did you elect to put the tails in the seat instead of in the leg? I might have gone the other way so the front and back edge of the seat are sitting over the leg rather than butting into it for support and maybe to make the seat a little more resistant to cupping. But looks great – very nice work!
Because I am inexperienced and hadn’t considered that! I don’t even know if dovetails this size are a good idea or not. I am wondering if the leg will just split with seasonal changes, time will tell. That’s partly why I opted for a hounds tooth so that it takes some of the width out of the tails. I’m just winging it to be honest, but it’s so fun to make and I love the giant size of the joints. Thanks for your comments.
15 July 2018 at 7:42 pm #549389Nothing at all wrong with a big dovetail like that. You’ll see them in timber framed structures. It’s very rugged, but who knows if anything will split over time. I gave up trying to guess at that long ago. If it does, it does. If the wood is pretty well seasoned or at least kiln dried, it should be OK. After you assemble it, you can always drill through the side of the pins at each end and into the seat and put some dowels in it if you want to. But I don’t think I would worry about it much as thick as that is. Again, very nice job!
To my eye, the joint orientation is good. You get pure vertical strength for free with timber this size just by having the tails rest in the sockets, so the concern is racking strength. The tail orientation seems right to me to increase racking strength and would be weakened if he cut it the other way around. If you flipped it around, racking would be like withdrawing the pin from its socket, which is what it likes to do. In this orientation, racking tries to pull the tail out of its socket, which it’s designed not to do. So, I think it’s right? In any case, there is so much surface area here that, once glued, it will be strong.
I’ve never cut a big, thick DT like this. Did you stay away from your lines sawing and spend a lot of time paring, or was it like a drawer and it pretty much goes together off the saw and just minor adjustments are needed? Offhand, I’d think you’d have to get it nearly right off the saw. ??
Really nice!! Something to consider, a rebated-dovetail would have worked perfect here. A 3/8” or so rebate in the leg where the seat meets the leg would allow you to distribute the vertical load across the entire width of the seat and leg. This way you can maintain the beauty of the joint exactly as you have it and still optimize how you carry the load.
With such a robust seat, I can’t imagine you’ll have any problems as is but if you were to build a similar bench with thinner material, hanging the weight off the tails might not be ideal.
Really nice work though. I’ve never tried a joint this large and imagine it could be quite finicky.
15 July 2018 at 11:42 pm #549393When the joint is glued, both directions resist racking Ed. My comment had to do with cupping. Load on a bench is predominately downward, not side to side and I wouldn’t worry at all about racking. If the tails are on the side, the long grain to long grain glue joint between the pins and tails would help the horizontal seat resits cupping. It won’t stop the vertical supports from cupping, but you don’t sit on them. That’s why I said what I said. With timber this size, I don’t think it makes much difference, but for thinner stock it might.
Make a simple dove tail box and see how easily you can rack the box in or out of square. That movement is the tail boards rotating against the pins which they are free to do. Now with those joints seated, try and rack the box sides perpendicular to the tails. I don’t know about you, but I’ve never been able to do that to any degree. Aesthetically, either way would be stunning. Structurally, putting the tails on the side is a better choice I think.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by harry wheeler.
16 July 2018 at 12:17 am #549396Either way you go, the joint could move side to side and neither orientation is any better than the other for addressing that. Front to back is a different dynamic for the joint altogether. Again, my only point had to do with the seat cupping.
Thanks for that Ed. I was concerned about racking alright and I was considering putting in a brace or rail but really didn’t want to change the overall look. You’re right it came pretty much straight off the saw and unlike Paul’s wall bracket the spacing/sizing of the small dovetail meant I could saw all the way down rather than at an angle. I used a 10tpi panel saw, and just left a sliver of the line.
When I put the joint together dry it was so solid that fear of racking was put out of my mind. I think it will hold up just fine. If it does happen to start racking a little later I can always brace it like the timber framers of old do with a half lapped dovetail.
16 July 2018 at 9:29 am #549403[quote quote=549394]The primary failure mode of chairs is from racking. Show me seating and I think about that first.[/quote]
But this isn’t a chair….
That’s an interesting idea mictau. It’s great getting input form so many people to think things through.
Pegging the joint to prevent cupping is a good one, although I’ve had this sleeper from being quite wet and let it dry out over a few months and it stayed flat. I had the smallest amount of twist to remove before layout so I think it’s going to be stable throughout its life.
Here’s a detail of that half lapped dovetail I mentioned…
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You must be logged in to view attached files.very nice, I made a very similar bench to this last year, hadn’t seen the idea done before, yours is much thicker and beefier than the version I made, I used treated softwood and it’s in our garden, looks a bit weathered now but it’s still going strong, it will last as long as the wood lasts. I think oak or a long lasting hardwood would be a better choice than pine, but the houndstooth dovetail is an incredibly strong joint.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by btyreman.
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