I need a vise
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- This topic has 13 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 4 months ago by David Perrott.
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I build a workbench based on Paul’s design. It’s a pleasure to have a solid platform to work on (before the bench I was chasing a Workmate around the garage). I don’t have a vise yet. I’ve been using some Grammercy holdfasts in the apron, which work well on some pieces and not so well on others. So, I need a proper vise. But which one? For no good reason (just that they are a reputable source), I have been trying to decide among the options at Lee Valley. The quick-release steel vise, the quick release front vise, or the Veritas quick release front vise.
The Veritas vise looks really nice, but it’s expensive. (And I feel like maybe it’s too nice for a beginner like me :)) I like the idea of clamping against the apron of my vise, but I might need to flatten that portion – I used a 2×12 for the apron and did very little work on it. If I go with a vise that uses the apron as the back jaw, how flat does the apron have to be?
As far as the quick release front vise (similar to the veritas vise – needs a wooden jaw) – it is tempting at less than half the price of the Veritas, but I’m not sure I should skimp on my vise.
I think the quick release steel vise is the one Paul mentioned in his bench series. I know he likes the vise set out from the apron. But it seems to me that clamping against the apron would be good (I mean, I have that surface there…) Edge planing long boards seems to be the most obvious advantage of a flush vise, but I could always use holdfasts on the other side of the bench for that.
Does anyone have any recommendations between the steel vise and the wooden-jawed vise? I know I need a vise – I am really feeling the lack of one. But I am stuck deciding which vise to get.
7 December 2015 at 5:30 am #132967Here’s my take on it. The two quick release front vises look like they have very little clamping capacity above the guide rods and screw, whereas the Record-type vise (the steel vise) has more capacity. I know this depends on how you mount them and how big of a wooden face you put on it, but it seems to me the clamping would be more stable in the steel vise.
You may be a beginner, but if you foresee sticking with woodworking for some time, you will never be unhappy with a nice vise. Last year I bought the 10 1/2″ steel vise from Lee Valley and I’m finally making my bench that I will mount it to. I can’t wait to start using it. I know it’ll be more vise than I need most of the time, but for $20 more than the medium size, I think I’ll be happy that I got the extra capacity.
Good luck.
When you state that you may require a lesser quality vice because you disscribe your self as a novice. I can’t understand the logic. Personly regardless of craft ability, I would choise to buy a vice only once. As with any tool, one aims to purchase the best quality tool you can afford, with the hope that vice will serve your purposes for a life time. Just my two bobs worth. good luck, cheers Peter
7 December 2015 at 6:32 am #132971I would recommend the steel vise. I haven’t used the Veritas front vise (which I am sure is superbly engineered), but my last bench had a similar vise to the non-veritas front vise. It worked but had issues with racking, both horizontally and vertically. When I built my new bench, I went for the medium steel vise and I couldn’t be happier.
As to mounting the vise proud of the bench, I’d recommend trying it first. You could always inset it into the bench later if you didn’t like it. When I mounted the vise on my new bench, I mounted it proud the way Paul recommends, thinking that I could change it later if I wanted to. After a year and a half, I can’t imagine having it flush. I build an L shaped deadman which hangs off of the benchtop for when I occasionally need the extra support for long pieces.
I also have the Veritas Inset vise mounted on my bench. That one also gets a lot of use.
7 December 2015 at 7:17 am #132972I agree with both Matt and roofusson, starting out isn’t easy we’ve all started at some point in our lives and we were all confused just like you are but only can you learn from your mistakes is by making mistakes. Cheap tools is never the answer, they are frustrating to use, inaccurate and sometimes dangerous and I say this to you as I’ve said to many people in the past. If you want to save money don’t get into a hobby, the fact that one can work with a minimal amount of tools is a true statement, all roads lead to Rome but what journey you take to get there is up to you. Let me clarify this statement, every tool has a purpose an intended function. A chisel with patience and Lord knows how many hours can plane a board but a dedicated hand plane will do a better job in a fraction of the time. A knife, square and a chisel can crosscut and rip a board but a handsaw will obviously be a better choice. Unless you go through the mechanics of woodworking and experience the pro’s and cons of it you can ask all the questions in the world on what is a better choice and even though you may get the right answer the thing is everyone has an opinion and they may all differ according to their own experiences and levels of knowledge, but you will never make an informed decision unless you try them all.
So my take to you is this; you would be much better off making your own wooden vice, look at what the craftsman of 200 years ago had and replicate that. 1770 was the pinnacle height of woodworking, it was the era of high levels of craftsmanship, 30 years later it all went down hill from there. You will only learn by doing and believe me when I tell you knowledge does not come free.
Just to finalise my statement and clarify one very important point, tool makers and God bless them are an important part of our craft, without them we would be at the mercy of antique dealers. Many of these antique tools are sold on eBay and flea markets by people who have zero knowledge on hand tools and they ask premium prices because uneducated people in the craft starting out pay them. Many tools on the market are junk and many moulding planes you see selling for upto $700 for a set are either damaged, warped have missing irons or what’s more common the wrong iron in it. A rabbet plane on eBay and antique dealers websites will sell for more than a brand new one from Lie Nielsen. A newly built correctly made moulding plane by either James Celeb or Larry Williams or any reputable tool maker is better in every sense of the word than an antique. Please don’t get me wrong a bargain happens, good antique tools are out there but unless you know what to look out for you can get stung and in the end it’s not much different to buying a cheap junk hand plane from a homecentre. We are not tool collectors we are users, most of us romanticise with the past and there’s nothing wrong with that but go into this craft with open eyes, don’t be a catalog man and don’t bag them either. Make sure you do all your research before hand and if you stuff up learn from it and be grateful you gained that knowledge.
I hope I haven’t offended you that wasn’t my intention
7 December 2015 at 3:07 pm #132977Make a wooden vise. Hmm. I’ve been kind of going through my own vise issues. I think I want my vise flush to the apron. So many times I wish I could clamp to the apron, but maybe that makes other things more complicated. Guess I should remount the vise. Over all I think I want a Scandinavian style with the front L shape with no bars in the way.
7 December 2015 at 5:00 pm #132979Dear Mr Perrott,
From I was eight to 14 years, four hours every Tuesday of school weeks were devoted (wasted I thought then) in front of a Scandinavian workbench. Its vice was very unfriendly to me who is left handed. The jaw opened to the right. To the left there was not only the wood arm attaching to the bench, but also a very nasty metal bar, task of which was to prevent the jaw from breaking.
Now – too many years later – I’m happy with a quick release metal vice; the more so after having made use of some additions found in Making Woodwork Aids & Devices by Robert Wearing (Guild of Master Craftsman Publications Ltd). Two pieces of plywood for moulds (the type Mr. Sellers uses in his shooting board) screwed to the faces of the vice and extending outside them, allow for various other faces to be slid over the plywood ones. One of those hang over the front face and runs flush to the apron. A ‘dowel’ is inserted through holes in the device and the apron, which in most situations gives enough stability. When not enough I use a clamp that goes into recesses on the undersides of the device and the apron, respectively.
Kind regards
Sven-Olof Jansson- This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Sven-Olof Jansson. Reason: syntax error
Have you considered making a leg vise? I’ve used one for several years and it does the job. It was not very expensive as I used a metal screw instead of a wooden one. I know they aren’t for everyone being somewhat archaic but I like the nostalgia of it and it holds my work firmly.
–Jim8 December 2015 at 4:02 am #132998Those big leg vises, do you have to adjust the guide at the bottom?
The vise is one of your most important tools. If you cannot hold your work, you cannot do your work. I tried faking without a vice using various wedges, etc., and wasting my money on benchtop gizmos, none of which do the job. You go in and out of the vice so many times, it just needs to be quick and easy. It is also a matter of safety for work using chisels. Finally, we agonize over tool costs, but if you look at how much wood costs, you will realize that if you cannot afford a vice, you cannot afford to buy your wood. Get a real vice and use it to make small items until you’ve saved enough money to buy more wood for larger projects again.
You have two basic choices, the Jorgensen style vice and the Record style vice. The former has a quick release in which you spin the bar a partial turn in one direction to release the vice and then pull the jaw open and closed. Spin the bar the other direction and it re-engages and screws tight. You *cannot* use the screw to open the vice a bit to adjust. The record has a squeeze lever to release the vice. You must hold it to slide the vice open and closed. You *can* use the screw to move the vice both open and closed. I’ve used both vices. Both work. The Jorgensen is faster and may be better if you have small hands that cannot reach over to the release easily, but it does have the issue of not being able to be “unscrewed.” I would not hesitate to buy one, but I prefer the Record style because my hands are big enough and I like to be able to “open a little’ at times.
In my opinion, you want the largest vice you can manage that is still small enough to let you put a typical drawer or carcase into. This last requirement rules out many of the fancy vices you see on the market that have really long faces or have multiple guide bars. If the face is too big, and especially if there is more than one guide bar, it is hard to get a bottomless drawer into the vice without using extra clamps. (At least, I’ve been frustrated in this regard when using another person’s bench with such a vice.)
I bought the 10″ at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/152635/eclipse-10-quick-release-vise.aspx) and ordered it at the store to avoid shipping charges.. It is a Record style 10″ vice and currently is about $160. Finding a real Record was too expensive and impossible. For me, I would not buy the Veritas QR _front_ vice because of the double guide bar. Instead, I’d consider the QR Steel _Bench_ vise (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=49980&cat=1,41659 ). Again, I’d get the 10″ if your bench will accommodate it. The Lee Valley vise is a Jorgensen style vise and I think is the vise we used in Paul’s class in NY.
So, in a nutshell, my advise is the 10″ Eclipse if you want a Record style vise and the 10” Lee Valley steel bench vise if you want a Jorgensen style. If you worry about your hands being large enough or strong enough to manipulate the release lever on a Record style, then consider the Jorgensen style strongly. I would not buy a vise without a QR of some kind.
To elaborate on the hand size thing…You cannot see it in the Eclipse photo in the link I gave, but there is a lever below and to the right of the main screw that you squeeze towards the screw to release the vise. I use it by draping my right thumb over the screw and my fingers over the QR lever and squeezing them together. I’d guess that the typical male hand will work, by design, but if your hand is on the small size or not strong, you may not be able to reach or squeeze and you *absolutely* must be able to do this one-handed because your other hand is holding your work in the un-tightened vise. I can’t decide if left hand vs. right hand matters.
I’ve randomly spelled vice or vise. Sue me. 🙂
- This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Ed.
Forgot to say: You asked about flush or not flush. For me, not flush, please. I can put a spacer in for the occasional times that I have something really long, but the vast majority of the time, I’m working on smaller parts and being able to get my hand in there to hold the item while I adjust the vice is so much easier than the alternative. This is especially important when trying to hold goofy things like drawers or entire rocking chairs (yes, I’ve done that.) I think some of the “bar clamp in the vise” tricks may not work very well if the vise is flush mounted. You lose a lot with a flush mount and gain little or nothing.
10 December 2015 at 3:04 pm #133060This has all been very interesting. I think my vise is a coulumbia. Its small. Maybe I will get a large one and try it flush and not flush. When I made current P.S. bench, I tool in cosideration 1) apartment 2) scale of work. I haven’t really thought about scale of work in regards to the vise. It would be nice to be able to clamp to the whole front apron but if I don’t need that for most of my work. Interesting.
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