moulding plane will not cut smoothly.
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Sven-Olof Jansson.
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10 February 2023 at 5:36 pm #791093
I recently got a No18 round hollowing ( as Paul used back in the shaker bench project, to cut out the seat shap) molding plane recently off, of course, ebay. I have made sure the body is not warped, I have sharpened the blade and flattened to a decent tolerance, yet within one stroke the blade chokes up. It will not make ribbon like cuts. I tried to make lighter cuts but to no avail, it cuts minimally and then chokes up. I wondered if perhaps the blade is not the blade designed for the body, because the relief to allow the shavings through is very tight, I might guess at a business card thickness.
Has anyone on the forum experienced something similar? I could widen the throat a little , but once it’s taken off it cannot be put back so I am reticent, in case it’s something else.
Thanks,
Chris
Boston MA, London UK.
Forever an Englishman ...This can be an issue with the wedge. The wedge needs to be tight against the side of the mouth and tight against the back of the blade. It needs to taper to an edge or point. When these conditions fail, the emerging shaving can be trapped or misdirected by the tip of the wedge. The result is jamming. I doubt you need to widen the mouth, but you can inspect all of the exposed surfaces in the throat / escapement to make sure there are no projections that could be catching the shaving. This is unlikely, but I have seen it.
I just noticed your “business card thickness” description of the mouth. That should be adequate. At the very least, you should be able to adjust for a shaving thinner than that so that the mouth opening isn’t an issue; however, I think the opening you describe would be adequate no matter what.
Also, once you take care of the jamming issue, inspect the blade width relative to the width of the plane body. On old planes, it is typical for the body to have shrunk. Since steel does not shrink, the blade will be too wide and will not quite match the shape of the bottom, either. So, somewhere along the way, you’ll want to correct this. You can do some work with the plane in that condition, but it isn’t ideal and, for some profiles, the blade hanging out wider than the plane body will lead to gouging that will spoil the profile being cut.
12 February 2023 at 9:41 pm #791335A reflection based on my own anecdotal experience: Could the type of wood used be of relevance?
Thomas Flinn & Cy kindly expanded the mouth of the Clifton spokeshave pictured. In its original shape, there were no issues when working on woods from deciduous tree species or high latitude Scots pine (Pinus sylvestris); but there was immediate clogging when planing spruce (Picea abies).
Sven-Olof Jansson
London, UK; Boston, MAI second Ed’s suggestion regarding the wedge. I was recently working with an old moulding plane and was experiencing the same issue. Shavings would get jammed in front of the blade within a stroke or two no matter how much I sharpened and fettled the blade. I then compared every aspect of the plane with another (different profile) that worked wonderfully, and realized that wedge on the good plane tapered to a point, whereas the problem plane’s wedge had a more blunt tip, maybe 1/16″ wide. I used my chisel, bevel down, to refine the tip of the wedge to a point as thin as I thought it could go without breaking … and viola! Problem solved. I was amazed at how such a little thing caused so much of an issue. After that the shavings came curling off as they should, and I was able to plane the entire profile on my stick of wood without stopping once to clear the blade!
but there was immediate clogging when planing spruce (Picea abies).
Interesting. Was the spruce fragrant? Could it have been sticky resin causing the problem? Do you know if it was air dried instead of kiln dried?
13 February 2023 at 6:12 pm #791433I shy away from construction wood with visible resin pockets, as the resin tend to clog up everything, including my patience. That does of course not exclude a diffuse distribution of resin extractives as the cause to blocking the mouth of the spokeshave. Yet, the Scots pine I use has a nice fragrance of resin (the kind chewed upon during innocent childhood), but its shavings cleared the original mouth opening.
Sven-Olof Jansson
London, UK; Boston, MASome resinous softwoods tend to clog…… it’s been well known. Long ago I was taught by an old carpenter to use a plane with a wider mouth or to set the frog well back.
Shaping with a metal spokeshaves? They can be forgiven for clogging if the blade is set generously to hog some meat off in a hurry.
Sometimes the answer to this was a Stanley No: 53 shave that has the luxury of an adjustable bed that enables the mouth width to be varied; coupled with a slightly skewed blade to vary the depth of cut from one side of the mouth to the other, you have a very adaptable tool to deal with most challenging timbers.
They haven’t been made for decades, but come up regularly second-hand and are worth getting.
Someone once told me (Probably Paul or Charles Neil) that pine needs to be heated to a certain minimum temperature or else the resin remains sticky, which can affect finishing. I do not know if this is true for spruce as well. This is why I asked if the wood was air dried (which would not ever be hot enough). I’ve always meant to look up info about this, but still haven’t done it. And, it isn’t a matter of the construction SPF vs. quality pine. I had some wonderful eastern white pine that was air dried….and drove me insane during finishing with an oil based finish as it would not dry until I used some alchemy.
13 February 2023 at 7:19 pm #791445Thanks everyone for you helpful comments! I did initially test on pine but subsequently oak with similar clogging effect. The wedge is in very good condition and shaped to fine point so it couldn’t be this.
I went back and put a much keener edge on the blade ( other moulding planes i have seem to be more forgiving with less of an edge). I also reviewed the body again and found that lengthwise there was still a very slight concave profile , ie the blade mouth lay above the ends of the body, no doubt through wear. As a result it needed a slighter deeper setting to make a start the cut which rapidly became too deep as the plane body advanced. As the plane was a simple hollowing profile, I shaped something similar in reverse in wood ( sadly i don’t have the reverse moulding plane) lined it with sandpaper and took of some of the surface. This helped immensely. Combining it with a much sharper blade, suddenly i had ribbon shavings. The amount i had to remove was minuscule. It’s amazing how sensitive and finicky such a simple tool could be, but with a little attention probably performing as good as the day it was made.
Thanks again for all your pointers,
Regards,
Chris
Boston MA, London UK.
Forever an Englishman ...Excellent! Another trick is to blacken the back of the blade, maybe with a sharpie. Even better is to use layout dye. Then, load the blade into the plane and set the wedge. Now, trace the profile of the sole onto the back of the blade and use it to guide you when refining the shape of the blade. In this way, you can get excellent agreement between the two.
13 February 2023 at 8:49 pm #791454{Ed wrote: This is why I asked if the wood was air dried (which would not ever be hot enough)}
So, I have access to kiln dried and air dried Scots pine, and kiln dried spruce (Picea abies). In the kiln dried ones there can be resin pockets, but they are mostly dry, so perhaps the kiln changes the properties of the resin. The air dried pine is from trees that grew above the polar circle. It has nearly no resin (apart being produced as a defence, resin formation is apparently related to growth temperatures).
The spruce is fast grown construction wood, and I suspect that the very wide tracheids and less amount of binding lignin results in the plane blade parting fibres, not by cutting, but through longitudinal splitting at deeper levels, with coarse uneven clogging “shavings” as consequence. Then again, ring porous woods like oak and ash have wide tubuli, but clogging is not problem, nor is thick shavings…
Sven-Olof Jansson
London, UK; Boston, MA -
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