Shoulder Plane?

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  • #626699
    Mark68
    Participant

    Do you use a shoulder plane? One would have been handy when making the tenons for the workbench but not sure otherwise how often I’d reach for one.

    Do you use one and which would you recommend?

    "Sawdust? I think you'll find that's man-glitter."

    #626737
    Sven-Olof Jansson
    Participant

    Mark,

    The Clifton 3110 extends its usefulness by in addition to that of a shoulder plane, it can be changed to a bullnose one and a chisel plane – working really well in all three configurations.

    I have two of them. For the central properties they both meet expectations of having flat soles and beds, and solid positioning of the interchangeable front part. But at £210 (I think price has come down from £260), one could perhaps expect a higher finish.

    The big and medium sized Veritas shoulder planes have also found their way into my plane cabinet. I use them as small shooting planes. And actually, is a shoulder of a tenon that is flat and para-planar to the piece’s surface that different from being on a shooting board.

    Sven-Olof Jansson
    London, UK; Boston, MA

    #626748
    Mark68
    Participant

    That looks nice Sven. But unfortunately out of my budget – at least right now.

    "Sawdust? I think you'll find that's man-glitter."

    #626765
    Thomas Brown
    Participant

    I don’t have a shoulder plane but occasionally use a #78 fillister plane in place of. This can also be used as a bullnose plane. I don’t know if a shoulder plane would do a better job, I just use what I have.

    #626766
    Dave Ring
    Participant

    Probably the cheapest GOOD option would be an older wooden rabbet/rebate plane like this one:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SKEW-REBATE-PLANE-A-MATHIESON/293219751631?hash=item44454256cf:g:8NYAAOSwbN1dAlC-

    You should be able to find one cheaper but this one looks to be in really good nick. (probably “restored” though.)

    Whatever you do, avoid those execrable little Stanley No.75 bullnose planes. Even if it’s free.

    Dave

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Dave Ring.
    #627107
    Matthew Newman
    Participant

    I’d echo the recommendation for a wood shoulder plane. I found one on Amazon for $15 (the listing is gone now otherwise I’d share it) that after a quick sharpen works pretty well. Though I don’t use it terribly often so I’m glad I didn’t buy an expensive one.

    Another option is to build Paul’s wooden rebate plane and just leave off the fence. https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/videos/making-rebate-plane/

    -Matt Newman

    #627121
    Mark68
    Participant

    I think I read the other day to stay away from a particular Stanley shoulder plane, the No. 75 might be it.

    Good idea about getting a wooden one as I don’t see me using one that much

    Thanks for the feedback

    "Sawdust? I think you'll find that's man-glitter."

    #627150
    Sven-Olof Jansson
    Participant

    The two great advantages of Clifton, Lie-Nielsen, and Veritas shoulder planes are of course that their sides are square to the soles and the soles are flat. The absence of those properties, which makes a shoulder plane more or less useless, is perhaps more likely to be present in used wooden planes: possibly with a likelihood inverse to price.

    Sven-Olof Jansson
    London, UK; Boston, MA

    #627203
    Larry Geib
    Participant

    I think it depends on what you want to use a shoulder plane for. I see it as largely a correctional tool to either bring your previous work to where you want it ( tenons, shoulders, etc) or to eliminate plane entry marks or saw marks for final presentation.

    The beauty of a premium shoulder plane is you can get an extremely tight mouth and take very small cuts with ease to do those things. There really aren’t many planes in your tool kit that will do that as easily. The only thing I’ve seen that comes close are some of the old English piano makers planes. I can’t afford those. And I don’t think those wooden planes are fine enough for the task either. The mouths on every one I’ve seen are too big. AndasSven says, the geometry of the old planes is never to the level of perfection required. Top quality Modern shoulder planes are better than they ever have been. I will also say that to get the most out of them, you have to kick your sharpening skills up a notch.

    But every serious woodworker can afford one new plane, and that what I recommend you get. Most of the old shoulder planes I see are either worn out or weren’t very good to begin with ( I put the old Stanleys in that camp).

    I don’t recommend any Swiss Army knife multipurpose plane. They cost to much, and Lorenzo’s law says you always have it set up for the wrong task. That maths say that’s true 2/3 of the time. If you need to do all those tasks, you can probably buy three planes for the money, two of them used.

    Purchase a brand spanking new medium shoulder plane from Veritas($209), Lie Neilsen($175), or WoodRiver ($125-ish with a store coupon). All are superb performers. at some times of the Year Veritas waives shipping, and I think if you order a LN at a hand tool event they do too. The choices left are aesthetics and cost.

    The first two will hold their resale value extremely Well. Maybe the lie Neilsen the best – (in the US at least). My estimation is that if you decide you don’t want or use a shoulder plane enough to warrant the expense, you could get all your money back on the LN medium shoulder plane except possibly the shipping cost on Craig’s list or your local equivalent. keep the box and literature until you are sure. Some times people lose their minds and pay above list for a plane in Cherry condition.

    You will have a plane that looks , feels, and functions great if you decide to keep it. In 15 years or so you won’t even remember what it cost.

    And you got this advice from a guy whose entire tool kit always has Otherwise been vintage planes.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Larry Geib.
    #627221
    Mark68
    Participant

    Thank you all, very much for the advice, all, I really appreciate it.

    I think I am going to invest in a Lie Nielsen. Save my pennies and treat myself.

    Like this Lie-Nielsen? http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen-no-041-small-shoulder-plane-701264

    Or this Veritas? http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-small-shoulder-plane-c-w-pm-v11-25-blade-717524

    Both are the ‘small’ model.

    The Veritas had a more positive review, but only with respect to how it is held (not performance).

    Would I only need small? Sorry I’ve never used one before.

    "Sawdust? I think you'll find that's man-glitter."

    #627320
    Larry Geib
    Participant

    Be aware the Lie Nielsen small plane is 5/8” and the Veritas Small plane is 1/2”, so they aren’t direct comparisons, even though both of the Medium planes are 3/4”.
    If most of your work is casework tenons, the LN medium is only 1/8” larger, But of course, I have no idea what size work you gravitate to. Lots of people seem to get a Medium as their first and a large as their second, but I have a large Stanley 10 1/2 Rabbet plane from my timber framing days so I didn’t feel I needed a large ( and a large weighs almost 2 lbs more than a medium)

    I have a lie Nielsen medium and WoodRiver small, which is also 1/2” and based on the Preston 1368. I wanted a little smaller plane for my second one and a more significant separation of sizes

    I’m happy with both planes, although the cheaper WoodRiver did need a little easing of all the sharp edges (and there are a LOT on that plane) To feel comfortable in my hand. The knurling on the adjustment wheels was also fresh off the tooling machines without being eased. I dulled those back wi some 1k Emory paper as well. All that took me maybe 1/2 hr to do but I’m kind of a nut on the tactile feel of tools. I’ve gone to work on every saw and plane tote I own. Some people are put off that the tool is Chinese, but it’s a premium tool. It is accurately machined.

    The LN came well finished out of the box. I just put the blade through the Charlesworth honing steps on an 8K water stone and put it to work. I recommended it because it is so well set up out of the box. ( and the resale value if you want to sell it) the LN might also be a better choice as a first one than a WoodRiver because the mouth is adjusted with a screw, where the WoodRiver is just hand slid into place which makes it very easy to bump the cutting edge when you try to set the mouth really fine.

    The Veritas is a fine choice, but I just didn’t like the way the angular tote felt. Maybe I just wasn’t holding it right when I tried it.
    While you are saving your pennies, try them before you choose. I went to a couple stores and to a LN hand tool event and tried them all out before I chose.

    #627321
    Mark68
    Participant

    Thanks Larry

    To be honest, I can see me making all sizes of wooden items from the workbench to a small hinged box and everything in between.

    There’s an Axminster store about 40 miles from me, I really should take a ride up there and see what’s what.

    "Sawdust? I think you'll find that's man-glitter."

    #627620
    undergroundhunter
    Participant

    I have one of these https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangsheng-luban-no-92-shoulder-plane.html, it has a nice tight mouth and can be set very finely, also the sides are dead quare to the sole (which is nice).

    The wooden planes refered to above are not designed to be used in the same manner as a shoulder plane, they are rebate planes designed for going with the grain or across it but not end grain. If you want a shoulder plane then one of the metal offerings are a far better choice.

    Matt

    #627722
    Ronald Kowalewski
    Participant

    dont forget the stanley 92, or the record 50. Both of these planes offer super fine adjustments and do great work.

    Protect the line.

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