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Some resinous softwoods tend to clog…… it’s been well known. Long ago I was taught by an old carpenter to use a plane with a wider mouth or to set the frog well back.
Shaping with a metal spokeshaves? They can be forgiven for clogging if the blade is set generously to hog some meat off in a hurry.
Sometimes the answer to this was a [b]Stanley No: 53 [/b]shave that has the luxury of an adjustable bed that enables the mouth width to be varied; coupled with a slightly skewed blade to vary the depth of cut from one side of the mouth to the other, you have a very adaptable tool to deal with most challenging timbers.
They haven’t been made for decades, but come up regularly second-hand and are worth getting.
Good to see you taking the time to do it.
I’m intrigued by picture 8. This shows the ‘spring’ lines – the angle at which the plane is held to the work to produce the profile. It is marked by the two lines at right angles on the heel of the plane.
There are two ‘flat’ sections of the sole, one on the base, the other on the right side, that should be at right angles; one rests against the side of the work, the other acts as a depth stop when the profile is completed. Usually the spring lines connect these two sections.
Anyway, it’s worth pointing out that these profile planes were intended as a finishing tool once the profile had been roughed to approximate shape with a combination of rebate and groove planes – not to cut the whole thing in one lengthy go.
There are few books on the subject, but this one by Matthew Bickford outlines the whole thing from start to finish. It’s aimed at Hollows and Rounds, but examines the geometry of mouldings and how to make complex shapes simply with basic tools.
It’s worth every penny and will save you a lot of re-invention of various wheels.Good luck
- This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by YrHenSaer.
From your photos It appears to me that previous owners have carried out some unsympathetic sharpening. In other words – as you’ve worked out – the blade and the sole-profile don’t match and the mis-match allows the bed profile to bottom out and stop cutting.
It is easy to attack the blade in isolation and to try reforming the profile, but that plane is definitely pre-war in age…… probably pre-Boer-War….. and personally I would start with the sole. Just reforming the blade profile in isolation is unlikely to give good results. Give it a complete re-hab!
Ensure that the whole of the base profile is dead flat from toe to heel. Lay a straight edge along each part of the curve and the side sides and sight it for gaps. Given the age of the plane I would be surprised if it is flat. Carefully running a straight edge along it with some carbon paper attached will help identify any high spots and it is wise to deal with these first. Nothing more than a gentle scrape with a squared blade. NEVER use sand paper! It is vital that the area of the sole that surrounds the moth, back and front, is in contact with the work when you have finished. If this part is raised off the work the iron cannot cut correctly.
When the sole is clean and flat end-to-end, reprofile the iron. This means undoing previous sharpening work and filing the edge back so that it exactly matches the sole profile when you sight along the plane. This will inevitably result in flat sections along the cutting edge and it is now that you re-file back the bevel, ensuring that at each point it is at the same angle to the profile. Polish the back and finish it with fine slip stones to get a good cutting edge.
A lot of work, but it will be worth it to give that old tool a working life back. Good luck.
It’s possible for some timbers grown in the vicinity of minerals to get some of this stuff in the grain. Certain west-African Mahogany-look-alikes such as Meranti can have Silicates in the grain and be notorious for dulling blade-edges.
However, if it is confined to that area of scarring on your photo, it may be that the tree had an injury or has incorporated some metal work long ago that has rusted away.
I’d suggest that the area needs a very close look…… other than curiosity, personally I’d ditch that piece once I found out what it was that caused the damage to your planes.
Previously I have found at least two lead bullets, deformed, but complete in some French Oak and in the London area, saw mills are reluctant to take trees over about 80 years old from the capital because of the likelihood of shrapnel pieces embedded from the Blitz.
In the field behind my house, a farmer left a complete harrow leaning against an ash tree many years ago……..
…..it’s amazing what you can find in a tree.[attachment file=”755725″]
[attachment file=”755726″]
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.Shwmae, Steve, croeso.
I’m not sure what there is in Gwynedd or the North-Wales A55 strip in the way of hard-wood suppliers, but builders merchants and the various DIY sheds are to be avoided – the offerings are usually expensive, poorly sorted and unsuited to quality work.
Your nearest best-bet, I suppose is to make an occasional trip into England, the Chester or Liverpool areas to stock up where you may find more specialised suppliers, but it will need some research and ringing around to see what stock is available from time to time.
There are some suppliers of hardwood on line, but when you factor in delivery charges, it can get very expensive and can never compare with selecting your own.
I’m in Ceredigion and I have an informal arrangement with a local maker who buys hardwoods wholesale and adds my occasional stock to his orders….. you may try to seek a similar arrangement on Ynys Mon.Good Luck.
Sorry to be the bearer of less than welcome news if the owner wants it back.
Sorby chisels are usually excellent quality. Though over the past 150 years there have been many iterations of the firm and the name, not all connected.
From the plastic decal, I’d say that it was from the 1970s at a guess. and there’ plenty of information about them on line if you searchIn the UK they are known as ‘Paring Chisels’ on account of their length, though they have the same basic outline as a shorter ‘Firmer Chisel’ specifically used for cutting mortises. These are used for level paring into long sections that are inaccessible by shorter tools. They frequently come up on the second-hand market here.
It’s also possible to get bevel-edged versions.I have a few, and were often used, though not exclusively, by pattern-makers on account of the length.
That one appears to have the remnants of a ‘Kangaroo Brand’ label., which means that it was made by Robert Sorby. The Kangaroo was their trade mark, before the last War and into the 50/60s.
One thing it ain’t – it isn’t a turning tool! (though I suppose that you could do if you wish……)
I’m in the process of moving, so all my planes are packed away and I can’t get at them at this time, but as I recall, the Stanley 45 multi-plane’s side-knob is held in place by a slot-head machine screw which goes vertically right through the centre of the wooden knob into the metal of the fence section. It was sometimes the user’s choice to take them off, if they got in the way…… which may have happened to yours.
The screw head is half-round to complement the shape of the top of the knob and the whole thing is recessed. (You can see the layout online if you google pictures of the plane).
The original pre-war knobs may have been made of Rosewood, which is now listed under CITES, so you have to choose another wood type.
As the plane was made in the USA, the threads are most likely a unified type – I’d suggest contacting American members for the size, diameter, pitch etc. Assuming that there were no pitch changes throughout the production life of the No: 45, you may strike a lucky streak and find one as a spare, otherwise a metal-worker with a lathe should be able to turn one out.
I hope that this helps…
You don’t say which type or make of saw, but a saw capacity of 108 inches indicates a medium sized machine.
On these machines, you will have adjustment to centralise the saw blade on the wheels, then to tension the blade when it is running true.
Next turn to the throat which, at the cutting point, will have guide blocks (or roller bearings on more expensive machines) to guide the blade’s running and these are adjustable so that, within the saw’s capacity, you can set it to run on varying widths and depths of blade.Setting a blade is a basic, step by step progression….. not at all complex if you do it in the right order.
If it’s a well-known make you should be able to get a copy of a users’ manual on line, then search about in You-tube for videos on setting the blade guides.
As a caution, be prepared there for contradictions……. it’s a basic art made more complex by too much thought!good luck.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by YrHenSaer.
Working logically from the head-stock outwards, it’s could be the Morse drive on the head-stock is running off centre – so,remove the spindle and check that the insides of the taper run true and centred…. no debris inside etc..
If it’s out, check the bearings for side-play. I don’t know if the bearings are adjustable on this lathe or sealed.Otherwise substitute the drive spindle and spot any difference…..
Good luck..Before you start inflicting any serious (and irreversible) physio on your saw, please consider that saw plate tension is often a function of the position of the spine.
Adjusting this can often solve small bends in the plate’s edge.
Paul Sellers made a short film about it – there are other films of varying complexity also available:
I recall that those ‘universal’ pattern saws were offered as a hybrid saw variety in the UK.
In the days before battery power tools, they were aimed at second-fix site-chippies who had to deal with cheaper and somewhat under-dried softwoods in door frames and skirting boards.
Their main use, though, was in cutting all the synthetic fibre-boards, chip-boards and shuttering ply-wood. All this stuff had no discernible grain direction and tended to choke ordinary saws. Hence the third, intermediate raker-tooth, which was usually blind and not sharp to clear out the debris. Compared to conventional saws, they tend to cut slower or require more effort for similar progress.
These days they seem to have given way to the disposable hard-points as far as I can see…… plus battery powered tools.
If the teeth are not hardened and will accept filing, you have the option of converting it to a conventional pattern. All the info on how to re-cut teeth and re-filing techniques is in Paul Sellers files.
It’s a good technique to pick up, because very often really good old saws teeth become work hardened with age, use and constant resetting and break off, which means a complete re-cut.Soap and water would not be my first choice for removing surface grime.
As well as dried and compacted dust, it’s likely to be a compound with some oil in it.
My approach would be to treat the metal and the wooden parts separately.
Make a sketch as you go, so that all the bits go back in the same order, then detach the wooden handles and knobs. Deal with those separately.
Strip down all the metal parts as far as you can, put them into a stout plastic bag without holes with a splash of white spirit – enough to soak the lot.
Leave it for 24 hours or so, and then brush an old toothbrush into the corners, rag it all dry. This should get the dirt either softened or removed. If it’s badly soiled, you may need to repeat this exercise.
At this point you can decide on your next steps.
If the finish is satisfactory, give it all a wipe with light oil and reassemble it all.Good luck.
Unless Stanley made your plane differently, the correct skew is 60 degrees. Perhaps you could double check another 79 plane, if you can locate one. I’m sure that if you configure the skew angles and bevels on both your blades correctly, it will work. Sadly, your plane’s previous owner made a mess of the blades and his mistake is hanging you up.
Grinding a skew at 60 degrees and then re-making the cutting bevel is not difficult if you have Diamond stones or a grinding wheel. This will get you back to what the blades should be.
You may experiment with some stiff card, cut to the exact size and shape of the blade and shaped at 60 degrees. Put it in the plane and then see how it fits and how much protrudes.Yes, the tip of each one needs to protrude below the base-line of the plane – if it didn’t and the tip were above the base line of the plane, it would not cut beyond a couple of shavings then hang up.
This plane is primarily intended to shave the sides of grooves or trenches – if the base of the groove is not seen, the mark made by the tip is not important. If you do not want this mark to be seen, position the fence height carefully so that the tip of the blade sits exactly at the bottom of the cut. That is what I do.
This Stanley No 79 is the only Side Rebate plane with a full-length fence that allows you to do that reliably.
The method that Paul Sellers shows is simply to align the blade’s skew angle to the alignment of the plane by scraping the back along a flat stone to establish a level if it is very slightly out of alignment. If it isn’t you can skip this bit. It is what I mentioned I did when I bought mine from new.
But first you have to get the blade shapes right. Until you do that you are wasting your time on imaginary angles and bits sticking out.
Good luck.
Hello Antonio, Apologies for the delay…… we’ve had an extended power-cut in this part of the world. No juice – no internet!
I’ve just had a look at my version of that plane, which I bought new about 30 years ago….. it’s not in use every day, though works well. These things never work straight out of the box and always needs a little fettling – in my case, it was a long time ago, but just needed a decent edge put on the blades.
From your photos,
1 – The marks on the inner blade-beds are nothing to worry about. Mine has almost the same grind marks – plated over. I would strongly urge against widening the beds to compensate for a skew-angle problem further down.2 – However, the blade should slide freely in its bed – I estimate that the sideways slack on mine is less than 0.25mm… so don’t worry about that either. Don’t widen the sides of the blade bed at all.
3 – I have checked the skew angle on my blades – it is 60 degrees, though there may be a tiny amount of latitude to suit the actual bedding seat in the plane block. The cutting angle of the bevels is very shallow – about 15- 20 degrees. The skew angles on yours are a long way out from that and there lies your problem.
4 – When everything is set up to cut correctly, with the correct skew on the blades and the correct amount of protrusion, the pointed tips are intended to stick out below the bottom line of the bed…… if they finish above the level of the base line, the blades would not cut correctly. On mine the protrusion is about 1 mm below on each blade. The mouth opening is about 2 mm.
May I suggest that you deal with one problem at a time. I think that the main issue is to get those blades right. Grind the skews at 60 degrees, next, as the bevels on the other side will be almost destroyed, re-establish those cutting bevels, sharpen the lot, back and front, and take it from there. If you then re-mount your blades, you – you may find a small pointed protrusion below the bottom edge of the plane – that’s quite normal.
I think that your plane will work.
good luck
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