Tenoned Mitre

Teoned Mitre Keyframe

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A tenoned mitre is a strong corner joint alternative to a mitre that excels for picture or mirror frames and the like. Paul’s technique for cutting a tenoned mitre uses the router to guarantee accuracy and gives nice crisp joint lines.

49 Comments

  1. Tom Davies on 19 October 2018 at 11:32 am

    Am I missing something, or is this the same as “Mitred Bridle joint” ?
    https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/videos/mitred-bridle-joint/

    • Ricky Briggs on 19 October 2018 at 12:11 pm

      I agree with you Tom, it is the same joint but with the added extra of fitting and correcting some small discrepancies.
      Regards.

    • dpawson on 20 October 2018 at 9:07 am

      Looks like it Tom. Two views I guess.

    • Michael Barnes on 20 October 2018 at 7:10 pm

      Precisely what I was thinking….I’m sure I’ve seen this before

    • Philip Adams on 22 October 2018 at 11:22 am

      Sorry about the confusion everyone. We did indeed make a previous version but decided to re-do it without remembering we had already released the previous version. We think the updated version is better and are glad you found the joint correction useful.

      Sorry about the spam as well. There has been an increase of people trying to spam the site. We are working daily to try and eliminate it, so you should see it decrease and disappear… I hope.

      All the best,
      Phil and the Woodworking Masterclasses Team

  2. Roy Palmer on 19 October 2018 at 11:34 am

    Thank you.

  3. Edward Kopczyk on 19 October 2018 at 11:35 am

    Great stuff as always 🙂

  4. btyreman on 19 October 2018 at 1:21 pm

    could you pin it as well with a dowel or would that be overkill?

    • Philip Adams on 22 October 2018 at 11:23 am

      I’m sure you could but it’s not particularly necessary for most uses.

  5. Bob Blarney on 19 October 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Hmm, fitting a single corner is one thing, but if one were making a four-sided frame, then any adjustments in final fitting of any of the corners might result in a frame that is out of square. How can that be resolved?

    • stefandingenouts on 19 October 2018 at 6:55 pm

      If you’re fitting because you left to much on, like Paul left to much on the inside of the mortise, you wouldn’t run into problems because you end up where you wanted to be.

      If you have to fit further you’d have to make the exact same adjustment on the opposing piece (take the two pieces together and copy the knife knik of the fitted joint onto the other piece, then adjust the other piece to match). Of course that only works if you have some leeway in the end size of the frame because it’ll end up square but slightly smaller (if you only have to have an exact outside size you could oversize it slightly from the beginning and plane it down to it’s final size).

      Otherwise, apart from doing some very clever filling of gaps maybe you’ll probably end up having to redo it completely. Mitres are pretty unforgiving, and adding the complexity of a tenon only makes it more so…

      Having a very good square with a long area to position 45 degree angles on, like the one Paul is using, really helps as well. I never got the angle of mitres right until I bought the same one.

    • jakegevorgian on 20 October 2018 at 3:48 am

      I don’t think Paul’s “mistake” resulted alteration of dimensions.

    • ted clawton on 20 October 2018 at 5:48 am

      I think the “error” came from not taking enough off, so that would mean that taking those shoulders down to where they’re supposed to be wouldn’t negatively affect this joint’s fit with the other 3 corners.

    • Ian Jefferson on 21 October 2018 at 8:24 pm

      I’d like to see a four corner fit up also. This is a lovely joint. I’m musing about where one would give up a bit of fit and the only place I can think of is the back shoulder. Loved the finessing… one wonders how Paul managed to cut a crown on that shoulder 🙂 but nevertheless the corrective actions and patience are good tips.

  6. beach512 on 19 October 2018 at 1:37 pm

    Really liked the gauge jig that helps ensure the size of the mortise. The router then ensures the size of the tenon. Takes some of the mystery out of the complexity of this joint. I also enjoyed the final fitting and how Paul stepped through how he determined what he had to fix to get the tight fit all around. Well done all around. Thanks.

  7. António Samagaio on 19 October 2018 at 2:49 pm

    Dear WWMC team:

    Thank you for this video/lesson.
    Although the similarities, in my opinion this new version is quite more helpful because all the extra features about the “finesse” bits – in other words how to recover from mistakes.
    And all the small details also look more clear in this version.

    Cheers to you all
    And wishes of plenty inspiration for upcoming videos and projects!

  8. Stephen Bamford on 19 October 2018 at 3:27 pm

    Stunningly beautiful work! Your teaching method is also outstanding! And the videography is something to behold along with the sound quality. All of this comes together with great results as in all your work. Thanks for doing all you do for the people, bringing us all wonderful techniques to learn.

  9. Marthijn Zwarts on 19 October 2018 at 3:58 pm

    Its very helpful to see how you’ve traced the ‘error’. You might not know how you did it, but I’m glad you did it so we could learn how to fix these kind of things.

    Thanks for again a wonderful video!

  10. John Strader on 19 October 2018 at 4:46 pm

    When you are cutting the mortise, could you leave a 1/4″ section in the middle allowing you to use the jig while sizing the inner walls without needing to use the wedge to keep the joint from collapsing? This small section could then be cut out after the jig was used, and then trimmed to dimension as a final step.

    • stefandingenouts on 19 October 2018 at 7:01 pm

      I think that unless you have a very straight vise and place everything well you’d probably end up twisting the mortise walls around that middle section a bit (personally I’ve yet to see a vise that is completely straight). The wedge supports nearly the entire mortise wall and would prevent that. That’s probably why Paul put it in so high at first and then gradually moves it down.

  11. jurgen01 on 19 October 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Well done. That mortise guide sure comes in handy.

  12. David Seymour on 19 October 2018 at 7:32 pm

    Wonderful to watch the correction steps at the end. You may be slightly disappointed to have to make them, but to all of us out here, that is by far the most valuable and fascinating part of the lesson.

    Please make more mistakes for us in future videos!

  13. John Peterson on 19 October 2018 at 8:53 pm

    Paul and team, great video. Thank you for all you do.

  14. Benoît Thomoux on 19 October 2018 at 10:55 pm

    Paul & team :
    If you put your saw right to the jig, and your saw has very little set, could you saw directly to your line, and get the joint right from the saw ?

    • jakegevorgian on 20 October 2018 at 3:46 am

      You could use a couple of magnets inside the similar jig to hold the saw in place, however the jig would have to be two different sizes—one for the tenon and one for the mortise to account for the saw kerf—any saw kerf.

    • Philip Adams on 22 October 2018 at 11:29 am

      Hello Benoît, I imagine getting a clean sawcut that stays vertical would be very difficult without the back hitting the guide. You are of course very welcome to experiment and let us know, but it may be adding unnecessary complexity.
      Best, Phil

  15. Michael OBrien on 20 October 2018 at 12:41 am

    Thanks to you Paul and to your great videography team. Wonderful video. I really like the finesse parts as they show how to correct those small and detailed errors we are likely to encounter in cutting this joint.
    Cheers,
    Michael O’Brien

  16. Anthony Greitzer on 20 October 2018 at 1:49 am

    Enjoyed this. There are some big frames I’ve wanted to make but feared that the miter joints would not hold over time or break apart if the frame was ever dropped. This solves the problem.

  17. ted clawton on 20 October 2018 at 5:06 am

    Paul, I’ve been using my routers as gauges as well after seeing you do it in other videos (also, the only combination gauge I’ve bought so far I sent back b/c I didn’t find it satisfactory, hope to get a good one someday). One thing I started doing when I can, i.e. when the distance isn’t longer than my plane blade, is have the blade mark the farthest side of the mortise from the face I’m registering the router against. This is so that the bevel of the blade is towards the waste wood of the mortise hole. I noticed you didn’t do that, but instead had the bevel towards the good wood outside of the mortise hole. Then again for the tenon I have the blade mark the line nearest to the registering face, as that’s where the waste wood is. For me, still very much a beginner, I felt I was able to achieve cleaner lines this way in the finished joint. But, it’s quite possible that’s only because I’m still too deficient in other aspects of making the joint. The only reason I thought about this when marking a mortise one day is because I started thinking of all the videos I saw you teaching your knifewall and its importance. I’d love to hear your thoughts on when it’s okay to not worry about the bevel being on the waste-wood side of a joint line. Thanks again for another fantastic video, I’ve learned so much from your videos and it’s exciting as I watch my skills grow.

    • jakegevorgian on 20 October 2018 at 8:35 am

      The bevel only presses the wood fibres down, so don’t worry much about if it’s being on a good or waste side of the joinery. Only time to pay closer attention is when cutting across the grain.

  18. ted clawton on 20 October 2018 at 5:49 am

    Re: fixing the “error”: Paul used chisels, could this also be an application for shoulder planes? (please say yes :- )

    • jakegevorgian on 20 October 2018 at 8:40 am

      Any chisel, including shoulder plane will work. I know brave men who even use their saw sandwiched in between imperfect joinery to make the adjustment.

  19. Paul Hayday on 20 October 2018 at 9:54 am

    Is it possible to make a picture frame with this joint? It feels like it would be difficult to get the distance correct with a recess for the glass/picture.

    • Philip Adams on 22 October 2018 at 11:49 am

      You certainly can. You have to use definitive knife walls to mark the internal corners across both pieces and pay particular attention when rebating for the glass. Certainly possible though.

  20. Ed on 20 October 2018 at 3:00 pm

    Paul, You showed how there is some latitude when assembling the joint so that you need to watch both directions to get everything to close up. My question is, if you are making up a four-sided frame, how do you clamp? It seems like clamp pressure could cause each corner to slide out of place. Do you just tighten up progressively around the four corners and tap things back into place as you go?

    • JIM CHALOUPKA on 20 October 2018 at 11:33 pm

      |Paul is conspicuously absent????
      JIM

    • Philip Adams on 22 October 2018 at 11:57 am

      Hi Ed, it is indeed a matter of applying the clamps evenly with two widthways and two lengthways, tapping with a hammer or using hand pressure to align them. When you have four corner joints of that size, it provides quite a bit of friction.

      Jim, I tend to answer the questions on WWMC consulting him where necessary with him commenting personally when we feel that will be of particular benefit. We aren’t online over the weekends. Paul is generally very busy with prototyping and developing projects, so we try and minimise his time directly answering questions on the computer in order to progress things as effectively as possible.

      Best, Phil

      • Ed on 22 October 2018 at 12:32 pm

        Thanks, @filadams. When I say, “Paul,….” it really means, “You, lot,…,” but seems a bit politer. I appreciate the time the team puts into answering our questions. It makes a big difference in what we all get out of the presentations.

      • Philip Adams on 23 October 2018 at 9:53 am

        Thanks Ed, thought it worth answering you in more detail as we haven’t necessarily outlined it clearly. We appreciate your questions too. Helps fill in detail and address issues that get missed.

  21. Patrick Griffin on 21 October 2018 at 11:26 am

    Thanks for the video, like a few others I thought the corrective actions were really useful.

  22. bytesplice on 21 October 2018 at 11:55 pm

    Looks like spammers have gotten loose..

  23. Dan Denson on 22 October 2018 at 5:28 am

    Thank you, Paul. I really appreciate these technique videos. There is something about the way you explain your thought process in finessing the joint that really helps things make sense.

  24. Eduardo Cintra de Freitas on 26 October 2018 at 3:20 am

    “and now i’m happy”
    so am I! thank you, Paul.
    Great lesson, beautiful joint!

  25. kenh on 26 October 2018 at 8:17 pm

    I especially enjoyed the section about correcting errors.

  26. Randall Cates on 27 November 2018 at 10:59 pm

    Very nice. Here’s a possibly correllary question. My wife wants a clock with the symbols from the Elements chart (H, He, Li, Be, B, C, etc). I found one but it’s too big for a regular square frame. So I’m thinking of making an 8-sided frame. Can this tenoned miter be used for this? Obviously it can’t be done with 45-degree cuts. Any knowledge provided would be gratefully accepted.

    • Izzy BergerTeam Member on 20 December 2018 at 12:36 pm

      Hi Randall,

      I asked your question to Paul and he said yes it would work, you just have to work out the angles. That is where most early woodworking would have used a joint like that.

      Izzy

  27. Brother Symeon on 19 December 2018 at 4:26 pm

    I would like to use a joint like this for a frame that I will be shaping. I am thinking that because of the shape I may need to make the tenon thinner. I would think that this would be fine but since I have no idea what I am doing maybe someone here could advise me on what I should do.

  28. chook on 12 January 2019 at 10:30 am

    The jig for paring down the mortises accurately should or could be made wide enough so that it could be clamped to the timber below the mortise. That way you would not have the problem of the mortise compressing.

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