Restoring Nickel Plating
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Tagged: combination plane, Nickel, Stanley 45
- This topic has 22 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 2 months ago by Byron.
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Thanks. As long as you register off one side of the work, off center t&g doesn’t sound like much of an issue.
@lorenzojose , I agree, but be aware that, since the blades are 3/16 and gap is 3/16, once the work is wider than about 1/2″, you won’t really get a tongue. You will get a shoulder and a groove since the 3/16″ blade won’t be wide enough to clear all the way to the other edge of the work. The plane originally came with a second, wider blade to handle this that would let you clear out to the endge on 3/4″ stock (according to Patrick Leach), but that was lost long ago. It wouldn’t be hard to make a replacement, though. The #48 makes a larger tenon and handles wider stock than my #49.Thanks Larry, Ed, btyreman, Alan for your comments.
I will be doing the following: and let you know how it goes:
Step 1: Preventative oil to the plane in good condition. Wrap in an oil rag.
Step 2: Acetone to tarnished plane – to remove any coating covering the rust
Step 3: Citric Acid, Dawn detergent, soft brass brush, 0000 steel wool, etc. Possibly Evap-o-rust. Variously, until the desired efect is achieved. All abrasives to be softer than nickel.
Step 4: Oil & useWhat does the 0000 denote for the steel wool? I presume that this is the fine fluffy type, not the course pot-scouring type?
I’ve removed most of the rust of the second un-numbered set of blades which I will be using. Ive noticed that the newer numbered set has never been sharpened. I’ll be using the older set for the time being.
@lorenzojose you motivated me to play with the #49 some more. Right now, I can’t say I’m thrilled. Yes, I get a T&G, but it isn’t joinery tight. It would probably be okay for unglued, floating slats on the back of a cabinet, especially quirked, but not to glue up and not for inlay. I sent a question to Paul a few minutes ago. I don’t know if this can be tuned more finely or not. I also find it easy to wobble off of plumb. For the life of me, I don’t know why they put a knob on the front of this thing….you need your off hand to press on the fence. Sorry to have started this mini thread buried in the original nickel thread.
21 September 2017 at 7:54 pm #318826Sorry if I caused trouble 😉
I guess thats why I asked you how well it worked. II have never used one. But take to heart what Patrick Leech of Blood and Gore fame, the source for all things Stanley, says this about the 48-49 plane family.
“This is one of Stanley’s better planes to use, and even the most ham-fisted power tool junkie can handle this plane and be amazed by its results. It works well, is practically indestructable, and is very versatile.”
So now you know you just have to rise ( or sink) to the level of ham-fisted power tool junkie to get results.
Note he didn’t comment on who set up the plane for the HFPTJ to use. It’s going to have to be you, not some guy who already knows the plane.
And that’s the conundrum of the whole line of Stanley specialty tools. They all have a learning curve and you have to push through as far as setting them up goes.
A lee valley version would have knobs to make adjustments.But here are a couple hints based on my experience with planes that bear some relationship to the problems you State.
First off, ignore the knob. It is probably there because, well, planes have knobs. I often don’t even grab the knob on a number 4 when I’m edge jointing. I don’t grab the knob on a 45, either.
My experience with planes with fences is you grab the fence with your left and use it to push the plane against the work. The right hand just pushes forward and doesn’t steer the plane. This allows the force to be applied at fence level, not above it, so you can hold the plane steadier. If the fence were longer , you could hook your left thumb around the knob while you pushed.
Which brings us to the complaint about wobble. It looks like you can add a wood extension below the metal fence to help you keep it steady. Unlike most fences, you can’t just screw a wood piece to the side, but you would have to make an extension the width of the metal fence and make a tenon that fit in the grove in the bottom of the metal fence. Secure it with a couple screws and washers through holes in the top of the fence. This is probably a little harder than it sounds to get plumb, but Paul has just shown how to get square tenons.
Make the fence a little longer at both ends and you might be able to employ the knob as part of your grip on the fence with the thumb hook method. For a first go, set the iron so it takes a light cut. You can alway set it deeper after you learn the tool.As to the width of the tongue, that’s determined by the settings of the two cutters. Try setting up the left cutter first. It should be adjusted with the fence, not with the side of the plane or the tongue and groove won’t register the same. The cutter will probably protrude a little out the left side and also into the grove in the bottom of the plane. That’s fine. By projecting into the groove, I mean probably the thickness of a sheet of paper.
Then set the right cutter to the width of the tongue you want. It should be 3/16″ or just a hair wider to get the right fit. Again, the cutter should not be flush with the metal it “hides” behind, but sticksout into the groove the wood tongue rides in and possibly to the right beyond the tool for wider wood.
I’d make a hardwood gauge exactly the width of the left cutter as a guide for initial setup. You can always take a shaving off it if the tongue is too tight.
The ideal relationship is 3/16″ cutter, 3/16″ gap, and the second cutter, all measured off the fence, but you might want it a little looser or tighter.
It depends on how well the tool tracks and how tight you keep the fence to the work.If either of the cutters isn’t fully exposed to the work, I think the tool won’t work correctly. I’d also set the left cutter for a slightly shallower cut so you get a tight joint on the face side. The side that doesn’t show can be a hair loose.
One or more of these suggestions is probably off base, but it might get you on track. Try the wood fence extension after you have tried the other setup to get the tongue width right.
Console yourself with the idea that if you have the plane set up, you can leave it on the shelf with that setup ready for instant use, which is the whole point of the plane. ( all bets are off in that regard with the wider right cutter. You need to change out cutter for the tongue and grove, which misses the whole point of the plane.
It’s going to be hard to set up, but once you do, it will be a long time before you have to set it again.
And sharpen up well before you even start. My experience is nobody ever laps little irons, and that’s important.
And console yourself that you have the rarer of the 48-49 pair. If all is lost, it might be a collector for somebody and you might be able to get a separate plane for each function.
Hope that helps from somebody who is mostly guessing. If you do get it working well, you will be the internet expert. I’m betting most people who ever used the tool have passed on.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Larry Geib.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Larry Geib.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Larry Geib.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.It’s no trouble at all. I appreciate the thoughts, questions, and suggestions. Mr. Leach is wrong with his hamhanded comment. I tried several of the things you suggested before posting previously and will try some of the others. By the way, Chris Schwarz commented that the #48 gave rough results. I’ve played some more since the previous posting and had some better results. Probably the biggest change was to ignore the handle. (I was already ignoring the knob.) Instead, treat it like a wooden moulding plane by making a “U” of your thumb and fingers and placing that U as low as possible on the plane. This keeps the push down low and reduces wobbling. It is extremely uncomfortable because the handle is actually in the way and is the wrong shape, but it seemed to make a big difference.
It is also important to note that you must move your hand on the fence as you cut. You must be towards the rear of the fence at the exit of the cut, but must be towards the front of the fence at the entrance, otherwise you will mistrack.
The geometry of the blades is probably a bit different from what you have in your mind’s eye, but the basic idea of setting up with a 3/16″ gap is right and I agree that if one can get it right once, then keep the cutting as a template for setting in the future or use another plane to make the template. Note that Lie Nielson’s implementation of the #48 & #49 use a single, forked blade rather than two separate blades, and that will likely help a great deal.
Do you remember when I said the plane came with a wider blade to allow using the plane on wider wood? If I understand the setup, you would need to change blades when you switch from tongue to groove: Because of the way the fence flips, the blade that cuts the groove is also the blade that cuts to the far side for the tongue. So, I suspect this plane is really meant for a single thickness.
22 September 2017 at 6:24 am #319157Hah.
Patrick has some odd ideas. He also doesn’t like the number 6 as a jointer, which tells me he never had to carry a seven or eight up a 6 story walkup. That two or three extra pounds in a full day chest makes a huge difference.
Keep in mind the site exists because he sells tools.
Maybe there is a glut of 48’s and eights in his attic.But Chris S also has some set ideas, even if they change from time to time.
He sells words. ( I do like his books)
I think I alluded to having to change out the wide cutter. At that point I’d use the thing as a plough and use something else for the tongue.Maybe I’d set up the filletster plane or something for the tongue.
Good luck experimenting. With luck, maybe you’ll sort out what it takes to get it to sing. Let us know how it goes.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Larry Geib.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Larry Geib.
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