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25 September 2018 at 12:59 pm #552261
Thanks Sven-Olof, I’ll definitely try the felt pen. One question: when I’m sharpening the chisel, which I started last night using the honing guide set at 30°, should I sharpen the whole bevel? Or do I only need to do 2-3mm up to the tip? I’m not convinced of the accuracy of this cheap honing guide to be honest – I had to fiddle about with it to ensure the chisel was being held straight in the groove on both sides. The Veritas Mk II looks more reliable (and more expensive!)
I’m using redwood for my bench, which I know is pine but that’s about the extent of my knowledge on it. I was guilty of assuming pine is cheap and therefore low quality, but since watching Paul’s videos and starting to do a bit of woodworking, my opinion is changing. I’m amazed at the satisfaction I can get from planing a piece of wood (when it’s not juddering about all over the shop of course) and seeing a silky finish… when I’ve made bits and pieces in the past (and by made I mean sawed and screwed together) I’ve always sanded them down to finish with an electric sander, and how naïve I was to think that was a smooth finish. Anyway, I’ve gone off topic again.
I also assumed tools were sold ‘ready to go’. Obviously not. Thanks for the advice on the jig – I’ve seen a few videos on YouTube and will make one at some point. I did start chopping, with a blunt chisel but still chopping. Here is the progress after about 45 mins. I’ve got some practicing to do before I reach Paul’s “half hour per mortise” suggestion.
I appreciate all the encouragement – as you say Harry, everybody has to start somewhere and I’m sure most people experience their own frustrations along the way. I’ve been planning to start woodworking for quite a while – in fact I bought my chisel set about 3 years ago, then fell pregnant with my little boy and it all got sidelined. I’m just happy to finally be making a start on something. Thanks to everyone that watched the video, now I know I’m not doing anything ridiculous, I’ll get hold of some spray adhesive as has been suggested before until I can get the Eze Lap stones. I think Paul did a video on making a strop, so I’ll have another look at this. My fingers do look a bit strangely contorted so I’ll stand head on and use both hands instead. That should help. I’ll move the paper to the edge as you suggest Ed and ensure the blade is completely flat when taking the burr off the back. The white counter top is possibly not the best place to do this but it’s the only solid surface I have at the moment – in fact that kitchen must be at least 20 years old so we’re replacing it next year. Maybe I should put a few scratches in the worktop just to make sure that happens 😉
Harry, I hadnt seen that video so many thanks for that. Very helpful.
I’m off to buy some spray adhesive!
Kirsty
24 September 2018 at 10:33 pm #552150OK, more advice for me to take on board, which is so kind of you all. I filmed myself sharpening my plane blade this evening, so although it doesn’t make for riveting watching but if anybody could have a quick flick through it and see if there’s anything glaringly stupid that I’m doing wrong, I would be very grateful. Yesterday I tried just pulling the plane backwards on the sandpaper whereas this time I went forwards and back, doesn’t seem to be making a difference to the issue of skipping/vibrating across the wood one way or the other. Here’s the link to the video: https://youtu.be/_IC-syjzswY
I can definitely feel something on the tip of the blade which I assume must be the burr, it’s just more like fuzzy filings than a definite ‘string’. When I pull the back of the blade across the sandpaper it does move it over to the other side as you say Ed, so I guess this must be it. I guess I just need practice (and lots of it) to get more consistent results. Many thanks Howard for your tips on buying decent sharpening stones. I was planning to get the Eze-Lap stones that Paul has recommended, these seem to have good reviews and I’ve seen much cheaper ones around so I guess these are a good investment. Do you agree? However it’s also the reason I’ve been using sandpaper – they’re not cheap are they. These seem to fit all your pointers, and I’ll get the 8 x 3 single sided ones as you suggest. I’m planning to make the holder in one of Paul’s videos too!
I’ve attached a couple of photos of my chisels (and Magic the Lab in the background ;)), so you can see there are no circular marks as such Ed, but they clearly look like new chisels… what do you think? I’m sure I should be sharpening them before using really. Unfortunately I didn’t see these posts until just now, and I’d already been out in the garage attempting my first mortise. It seemed to go OK although I had episode 3 of the workbench series playing on my phone, and after a few short minutes of chopping his mortise Paul was down to about an inch, and I was down to about one sixteenth… not sure if that’s my dull chisel or the fact that I haven’t a clue what I’m doing yet 🙂
Harry, I was conscious of your point about not getting the blade back in the guide at the exact same point – I just tried to get it as close as possible and it seems to be working OK. Having said that, if anybody watches my video they might think I’m doing far from OK!
Anyway, I’ve sharpened my chisel now so I’ll give it another go tomorrow evening and see if it goes any quicker. One thing I did notice – when I started sharpening the chisel blade, it was clearly going much faster on one side than the other. When I stood head on and held the guide with both hands, it evened out. I wonder if this could have contributed to the skipping problem, even though I didn’t pick up on any uneven sharpening of my plane blade. It stands out more on the chisel blade because it’s new.
One final incidental point – I have a lovely shiny new set of Narex chisels but the one I needed for the workbench leg mortise (18mm) isn’t in the set! I had a choice of 16mm or 20mm, so I went with the 16mm. Any reason why this was the wrong decision?
I know I keep saying it, but I really do appreciate all this help.
Thanks, Kirsty
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You must be logged in to view attached files.24 September 2018 at 4:49 pm #552143Thanks everyone – sorry I’m only just getting chance to reply to this today. I had a great evening continuing with my workbench after spending a good while sharpening the blade, and the original problem had pretty much gone. I do find that my plane gets clogged up easily when working on the laminated pieces, and I have to clean up the sole with adhesive remover. I’ll be glad when that part of the workbench is done. Well, last night I sharpened up again using the honing guide set at 40mm (which is just under 30°). Unfortunately the skipping problem returned, although not as severe as before. I’m thinking (hoping) that I just didn’t do a thorough job of sharpening – I probably did around 50 strokes on each grit (240, 600 and 1200). I think perhaps I neglected the sharpening in my hurry to get back to the fun part of actually working on my bench! Tonight I’ll be making my very first mortice in one of the legs, so I’m excited for that. I’m trying not to be too demoralised by my sharpening failure and persevere, although it is certainly disheartening! This burr is still eluding me although now I’m using the guide I can see lots of tiny filings stuck to the tip of the blade – I was expecting a kind of ‘string’ of steel, but maybe the sandpaper method is preventing this? Or maybe these filings are what I should be seeing. I just don’t know.
In any case, I have no intention of sticking with the sandpaper – if nothing else it’s a faff having to set it up for each sharpening. The stones are much more convenient, so this will be my next woodworking purchase, and I’m hoping it will help me with the sharpening. Although I’m not sure if the movement of the honing guide across the stone will do it any good… comments welcome on that.
My Eclipse guide didn’t come with instructions but some Googling helped me figure it out. My Narex chisel set has yet to see any use so I’m hoping they are sharp enough to do the mortice this evening without me having to think about sharpening those too! I’m fed up of thinking about sharpening 😉
I’m grateful for the tip about doing a few extra strokes on the corners – in fact I was noticing lines across the wood before and stupidly didn’t think that this would be causing it. This has solved the problem.
If anybody is actually still reading these posts (I know I’ve dragged it on for a good while!) I’d appreciate any comments on whether I should be wetting the sandpaper before sanding? I’ve tried both with and without – not sure which was correct. I know Paul uses glass cleaner on the stones.
Thanks again everyone.21 September 2018 at 9:15 am #552045Thanks all for your valuable advice. I picked up the honing guide from Screwfix yesterday and gave it a go on the 240 grit sandpaper, which is taped to a flat tile with Gorilla tape. Well, I am amazed at the difference. The blade looks and feels totally different, and clearly what I thought was sharp was actually not remotely close to being sharp. I had a very quick 1 minute attempt at planing my wood again, just to see if it had made a difference to the ‘skipping’ problem, and I’d say it was 90% better. So, tonight I’ll continue with the sharpening using the honing guide on all 3 grits and hopefully I’ll be back to my workbench project!
The sandpaper does ruck up as you say on the push stroke even with the strong tape on all edges, so the diamond stones are most definitely on my Christmas list. I’m wary of investing too much before I’ve really been doing woodworking for long enough to know that it’s a hobby I’m going to stick with – I’ve already spent a considerable amount on various tools. One of which is an old Record plough plane, which I’ve had varying results with, so I’m now going to sharpen the blades with this honing guide and see if it makes any difference to my work! Having said that, trying to use a plough plane with no workbench or vice to clamp the wood in is not the best starting point for accuracy.
Anyway, I’ve gone off topic, but thank you all very much for taking the time to help me, you’ve got to the bottom of the problem for me and I’m looking forward to continuing my workbench project – which hopefully will be the first of many! I’m sure there will be lots of other problems I encounter along the way and it’s good to know there is a helpful supportive forum I can come to and get great advice. Lots of forums for various hobbies are full of criticism for newbies and I haven’t experienced any of that here. So thank you all.
Kirsty
19 September 2018 at 12:50 pm #551865Hi all,
As usual I am so grateful to you all for taking the time to help me with this. Thank you.
I have attached some photos (not great but it’s the best I could get with my phone camera!) of the blade and chip breaker/cap iron. On close inspection it did look like I might have been sharpening the blade more on one side – probably pressing harder on the left side resulted in a slight angle. I wonder if this could be causing the issue? I haven’t sharpened the back of the blade at all as yet. Thank you for the video Howard, I haven’t watched it yet but certainly will. Hopefully it will give me some insight.
Keith, it worked fine when I got it, so must be something I’ve done/am doing.
Of course I’m a total novice but I’m fairly sure the blade is sharp – it’s sounding more and more like it’s the sharpening angle that’s wrong. The wood is just PAR redwood. I’ve noticed the burr being referred to a few times in the replies, and to be honest it’s one thing I was aware of when I was trying to sharpen – at no point did I get a burr. I know Paul talked about this in his sharpening video so I know what to expect, but I just assumed it’s because I’m using wet/dry sandpaper (with a bit of water) rather than a stone. Should that not make a difference? If not, I honestly don’t know what I’m doing wrong, I carried on for maybe 5 minutes on each grade of paper but still didn’t get this elusive burr. Maybe I need to do a video of how I’m sharpening so that somebody can enlighten me on what I’m getting so wrong!
Harry, I don’t totally understand what you mean – if it doesn’t matter too much if the angle is a bit steeper than it should be – as long as it’s less than 45 degrees which of course it is – then what else could be causing this problem? Sorry if I’m missing something totally obvious – I’m very confused :/
It’s definitely seated properly on the frog – I place it on and wiggle the lever around so it moves side to side, then clamp it down.
Out of interest – would this honing guide from Screwfix do the job for now (it’s £4.99 and I can get one today!) https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnusson-honing-guide/6342v?_requestid=230780
John, thanks for the link. You’re right, this has happened since I started sharpening so my thought was it’s either the sharpening or something I’ve inadvertently done to the setup of the plane when disassembling or putting back together. But I haven’t adjusted the frog or anything so…
Sven-Olaf, I agree the blade does seem far away from the opening (although it’s not resting on the back) – I did wonder if I should adjust it to be closer, but then I decided it might be best not to start messing and risk making the problem worse than it already is! I haven’t adjusted this since I got the plane so the position didn’t seem to be an issue before. You’re totally right – learning online has so many advantages but when something like this happens, it’s hard to explain and resolve the issue from a distance. My winding sticks have also been used regularly and I’m not sure I’m at the tolerably mediocre level yet!
Thanks again, everyone.
Kirsty- This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Kirsty Sanderson.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.18 September 2018 at 11:51 am #551702Firstly thanks everyone for the input, I really appreciate the help!
1. I’m fairly sure the lever cap and screw is set correctly – it’s definitely not too loose, if anything I set it too tight and had to loosen it to allow me to adjust the depth.
2. I’ve tried varying the way I’m planing, more pressure, less pressure, across the grain, nothing seems to make any difference. I must admit though I am a little confused about the correct planing technique – I’m sure I saw a blog post by Paul where he says the exact same thing as you John, about putting pressure on the rear of the plane at the end of the stroke. But watching his videos, he talks about lifting the plane at the end of the stroke to avoid lines in the wood caused by an abrupt stop. Maybe it’s an understanding I’ll pick up with practice.
3. John your comment about lack of control was interesting – now that I think of it before I started having this problem I did notice that sometimes the plane was kind of wiggling/squirreling around (if that makes any sense!). I thought it was just the wood grain but perhaps it was the first sign my sharpening was incorrect. Thanks for your suggestions, I’m off to find myself an Eclipse honing guide (whatever that is!)
4. I’ll take some photos later of the blade etc. Howard, I’m using 240, 600 and 1200 grit sandpaper taped to a flat tile and trying to follow the technique on Paul’s sharpening video. I’m sorry but I’m not sure what is meant by the chip-breaker being honed – again I’ll take some more photos and hopefully you can enlighten me on this!
I don’t think the bevel should be too far out as I bought the plane reconditioned from Tooltique and I think they have a good reputation, and I’ve only sharpened it myself 3 or 4 times. Surely I shouldn’t have changed it so much so quickly… but then what do I know!
Many thanks again,
Kirsty
17 September 2018 at 10:25 pm #551679Thanks both for your replies. Maybe the blade isn’t as sharp as it should be. So I guess the first thing is to buy a honing guide and get the bevel perfectly angled and sharp, and reassess. It’s just strange how it’s ‘skipping’ over the wood with literally every stroke, even when the blade is set so shallow it’s barely taking anything off. I’ve tried adjusting my hold on the plane, doesn’t make a difference.
I only started using the plane a couple of weeks ago, and I used for a good few hours before I sharpened at all. I knew the blade was getting very blunt because I was getting a lot of tearout – and after sharpening I was amazed at the difference. But now it’s not particularly causing any tearout, I just can’t get a single smooth cut. It’s maddening!
In any case, I’ll get a honing guide and go from there. Thanks again. 🙂
17 September 2018 at 9:15 pm #551671Hi Mark,
I’m sorry, I didn’t see your reply until now. I must have taken off the email notification option. To be honest I’m not sure what you mean – I got these 2 little parts, is this what you’re referring to?Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.17 September 2018 at 8:54 pm #551665Thanks a lot for your reply – I actually forgot all about this post as when I checked the measurements again it turned out the wood was correct after all! But yes, it will be a little shorter than planned as I didnt make any allowances in the length for cutting and planing the edges. Still, as you say it will work perfectly 🙂
30 August 2018 at 5:39 am #550760Ok thank you, it seems I’m paying about the right amount. I’ll definitely surface plane the wood first – I just felt like I would have gained more experience from preparing it from scratch but having said that, I can always do that for my future projects. This gets me a workbench much quicker, so that’s a bonus.
Have any of you made any if the other things from Paul’s videos since building your workbenches?
Kirsty
29 August 2018 at 7:14 pm #550754Hi Tiago,
It sounds like you will have a fabulous workbench when it’s finished. Maybe you could upload some pictures of it when you’re done? I also had to buy all the tools from scratch so yeah, it’s an expensive first project in that sense! I’ve just been acquiring them gradually over the past few months and now at last I have enough to get started. It’s exciting!Thanks Tom, I’m wondering if I should have gone for some reclaimed wood, although I wouldn’t really know where to look for that. Yes it will all be cut and planed to the exact measurements… although this may sound very silly but I would have actually been happy to plane it all down from rough sawn myself, in fact I probably would have preferred to do that. I didn’t actually ask for PAR. But in that case I assume I would have to give different dimensions to the ones in Paul’s cut list? I mean, how much should be added on to allow for planing? I’m a bit confused about the whole thing to be honest. And someone at another timber yard told me that PAR also means you have the added cost of kiln drying – rough sawn is generally not dried. No idea if that’s correct or not. I presume these are just things I will learn with experience!
Kirsty29 August 2018 at 3:55 pm #550734Hi Grahame, I did wonder about the metal handle being a bit uncomfortable to use. It has arrived today so I’ll attempt to set it up tonight and give it a go!
Thanks John for the insight, it’s good to know that storing your tools under cover has helped a lot. It wouldn’t be the end of the world If I had to store them indoors but I’d rather not be traipsing in and out with them! Being in Newcastle, you might get even more rain than us. Good luck for this winter!
27 August 2018 at 7:34 pm #550626Hi again,
Firstly, thank you very much Darren for all the very helpful info on getting my workspace damp free (or less damp!) Is it worth putting some insulation between the brick and the chipboard I wonder? If nothing else might make it more comfortable to work in during the winter evenings? I’m thinking a heater would cause condensation issues but again I’m just guessing there. The rubber matting looks great too, for the safety aspect you mention also. My garage floor is ridiculously uneven and the concrete is coming up along one side so I haven’t even started thinking about how I’m going to work around that…
Anyway, I’ve taken on board all the info you’ve given and it’s all a great help, so many thanks again for that.David, Ive looked again at the ebay listing and I think the depth stop is included – I’ll try to attach a picture if I can. I assume as Harry mentioned it’s not showing all the images now that the listing has ended. It’s a good point you mention about regular use keeping tools in good condition – and never a better excuse to get out and do some woodworking!
Btyreman, you’re not far from me in Preston. We will have the same luck with the weather! It would be great to know how the tool chest works out for you. That’s definitely on my list of projects to do. And should be good practice before I start on furniture that I’ll want to have in the house.
Thanks Harry for the tip on using the plough plane too. I’ll be sure to look out for that and stop it getting clogged up. I’m itching to get started now. I was bought a power router a couple of years back but then discovered Paul Sellers and decided to go the hand tools route, so I’m trying to sell my unused power router to help fund the Veritas router plane! Everyone has been very helpful and welcoming on this forum so thank you again to everyone who has taken the time to reply.
Kirsty -
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