6 November 2012 at 4:36 pm #2936Greg MerrittParticipant
Can anyone recommend a quality tenon saw? Are the Veritas carcass saws (crosscut & rip) quality users?
http://hillbillydaiku.com6 November 2012 at 4:55 pm #2939Thom EdwardsParticipant
The Veritas saws a are great quality saw. They don’t have quite the depth of cut that other premium saws have, so that is something you will want to consider. But, that being said, I think they are the best bang for the buck if buying a new saw.
You will get a lot of people recommending other premium saws that are a great deal more expensive. They may be better, but for my budget I am totally happy with mine. Also, I think I’ve seen Paul himself using their saws in at least one video!
Keep in mind I’m only referencing new saws. The “vintage” route is another path that others can chime in on with better advice than I can give. I’m not handy at refurbing saws…6 November 2012 at 5:38 pm #2941
I can also confirm the Veritas Carcass saws as great to use. The only downside is their small sawplate. It does not have the same capacity as a tenon or sash saw. The price is spot on and performance flawless.
Located in Jönköping, Sweden.6 November 2012 at 6:13 pm #2942ejpotterParticipant
I echo the thoughts on the Veritas saws. Paul has also recommended them several times.
Now, can anyone suggest a place to get a good quality panel saw w/o paying Wenzloff prices.
Just moved to NE Ohio6 November 2012 at 6:29 pm #2943
I don’t have any experience with them, but I plan to purchase a panel saw made by Thomas Flinn & Co.
The prices are more in my range in contrast to Lie-Nielsen for example…
Here’s a link to the handsaws: Pax Handsaws
Best place to buy them probably depends on your location.
Located in Jönköping, Sweden.6 November 2012 at 6:56 pm #2944Rob YoungParticipant
I would suggest you ask yourself what exactly you plan to do with the saw (any saw). That is to say, what scale of work. If you expect to be making mostly small to medium sized furniture pieces, then the Veritas carcass saws are probably big enough for anything you would be doing. If on the other hand, you want to make giant pieces requiring tenons 3″ long, then you can either get a larger tenon rip saw and saw them or stick with a smaller crosscut carcass saw for the shoulders and pare the tenons instead. Even the mass-produced “Japanese” style saws could be an option for you.
But, if you really, really like saws, by all means get your hands on one or two and try them out. Even the less expensive Pax is OK once you resharpen it. The handle may also need some TLC to make it nicer. Or you can spend a little more and go with something from LN or BadAxe or Mike Cianci or one of several other boutique makers (the list gets longer every day). The unfortunate thing in all of this is that it is so difficult to put your hands on the saws before buying them, LN and LV shows not withstanding.
Didn’t really help your decision, did it…6 November 2012 at 6:57 pm #2945AnonymousInactive
Older Spear & Jackson & Disston saws are my preferred choices – primarily due to in excess of 40yrs owning and using them – although I’ve heard good things in terms of Veritas and Thomas Flinn & Co. and thought the examples I test drove were decent enough. Possibly the best way to decide – on what to buy and when – is to ask friends/colleagues if you can gauge and handle tools from among their kit so you can gain a sense of how they’re balanced and how they function, but hold back on investing larger sums of money until you’re 150% positive a given piece of equipment will suit you and your technique. This holds true in terms of heft, handling and grip, as well as saw plate dimensions.6 November 2012 at 7:06 pm #2947Rob YoungParticipant
@ Jesper Thorson : re Pax Handsaws
I have one of the 28″ Pax rip saws and for the money it is a decent enough saw. However the handle is not what I would call “good”. I’ve been experimenting with re-shaping it and it may eventually have to come off and be replaced altogether. I have located one other person who has tried to removed the handle and found that it was improperly attached, it seems the steel plate was drilled at the same time as the handle causing the exit burr to jam inside the handle and thus make it nearly impossible to remove (http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/the-good-the-bad-and-the.html). As I haven’t yet removed mine, I can’t say if mine has the same issue.
But the saw arrived in good order, I found the set to be OK, if perhaps a bit on the wide side. The blade is slightly tapered but I’m not entirely certain if this is something done at the manufacture or just a coincidence with the normal manufacturing variance of the steel. Sharp and cuts well. Being 6′ 4″ and having arms like a spider-monkey, a 28″ rip saw fits me just fine.
But I would not recommend a full size (26″ to 28″) coarse tooth rip saw to anybody as a first rip saw. I’d suggest instead getting one of the dirt-common 20″ to 24″ models with a good clean, straight plate for about $5 at a garage sale and file the teeth first. You get to both practice your sharpening (easy with a rip saw) AND the shorter saws are easier to learn with and use at the bench. But it is great fun to chew along 1″ or more per stroke with the big saws! 🙂6 November 2012 at 7:10 pm #2949ejpotterParticipant
Thanks. I’ve seen the PAX saws on Tools For Working Wood, but haven’t had any experience with them.
Just moved to NE Ohio6 November 2012 at 7:35 pm #2950
Does anybody have experience with the Pax 1776 18″ Tenon Saw? There are not many +18″ backsaws made and the price for the PAX saw is similar to Lie-Nielsen and Adria 16″ saws.
Located in Jönköping, Sweden.6 November 2012 at 8:43 pm #2952jbecwarParticipant
I have the PAX (not 1776) tenon saw. Its a great saw (my favorite), but you should think of it a kit, not a ready to use saw. They pack it in a thick varnish, so you will need to remove that or the saw will bind like crazy. I had the rip version, so I re-set it and refiled it rip with a just a little bit fleem like a sash saw. This way it works for both rip and cross cut easily. The handle stock isn’t very conferrable from the factory, but its really nice clear beach. I took a rasp and some sand paper and filed down all the hard edges till it fit like a glove. I sanded off the rest of their paint and finish and refinished with two coats of linseed oil. The saw is now my favorite saw, and I use it for everything thing. it looks absolutely fantastic. One last thing on the pax saw is that the brass back is very thick and very heavy which is great, but if you trying to cut the tails on dovetails it can make the saw feel kind of top heavy. A light dovetail saw is easier for me to hold at an angle then the pax tenons saw.
I have the vertias carcass saws, and they are nice, but they just too short. I would go with the PAX or other longer tenon saw.
I also have the PAX full size rip and cross cut handsaws. They are really long. I’m 5’9″ and I had to cut them down by about 4 inches so I didn’t hit the ground while at my saw bench. I don’t like the rip saw, its too aggressive at 5pt, and the crosscut saw is too fine. I ended up getting two distons to suplement them. A less agressive rip saw and a more aggressive crosscut saw. The PAX handsaws seem to have less tension in then the old distons, I prefer the distons to the PAX saws, but in my option the PAX saws are ground better and have better steel. The PAX handles are quality beach, but they need to be fit your hand with a rasp and some sandpaper.
No mater what saw you get gets some files and sets and learn how to sharpen them. Its not hard and it makes any saw so much better.
-James6 November 2012 at 11:03 pm #2957George BridgemanParticipant
I’ve been using the Veritas carcass saw (rip) and it’s pretty decent. As others have mentioned, it’s quite a bit smaller than you’d expect but so far that hasn’t been a problem. The thing I don’t like about it is the handle. I’m also using the Gramercy carcass saw (crosscut) which is about the same size as the Veritas but feels nicer in the hand. The walnut handle is awesome but it doesn’t come cheap.
I also have a Groves & Sons backsaw that is much bigger and heavier. It needed a sharpen (13pt rip) but cuts so quickly and because of the weight and more plate under the back, is easier to control and I can really feel when the saw is vertical. Very different to the other two but a joy to use.
I could write an essay about my issues with acquiring decent backless saws without spending a fortune. I’m currently learning to straighten and tension vintage saws as most of the cheap ones I have got from eBay are far from straight and can’t track a line. Sharpening and setting them is the easy part!
"To know and not do is to not know"6 November 2012 at 11:36 pm #2959AnonymousInactive
I have the Pax 12″ 1776 crosscut and rip, real nice saws. I also have the Lie- Nielsen 14″ tenon saws, and smaller carcass saws.
It’s personal choice,but I’m not into buying older saws and doing them up, I like to buy a good new one and look after it.
I love both Lie-Nielsen and Pax saw’s, but I do prefer the folded brass backs on the Pax, and yes they are heavy but that is a great help to me.
Good luck buddy, I hope you pick the right one for you.
Ken7 November 2012 at 1:04 am #2971Greg MerrittParticipant
Thank you all for the responses! I’ve been using Shark brand japanese pull saws up to this point. I’ve never used a western style joinery saw so I have no idea what to expect. What I do know is that this is the first time I have had access to a complete system of hand tool woodworking and I believe that I should commit to it completely. This is the reason I am looking for western style joinery saws. I’m thinking that the Veritas saws will be a good starting point. As my skills grow I will better understand what additional saws I will need.
Thanks again for all of the input!
http://hillbillydaiku.com7 November 2012 at 9:48 am #2977orkaniuszParticipant
I’d like to ask another question about tennon saw – how many TPI is the best for making dovetails? What’s your experience? (Maybe it’s a stupid question – sorry – I’m new here…)
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