Buying Woodworking Tools is Becoming Stupid
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Here’s an interesting Preston copy, probably shopmade using an actual Preston router as a pattern.
Dave
6 January 2018 at 9:10 pm #429928It’s definitely getting silly. I’ve been dabbling on and off for the last 18 months and remember picking up a Stanley 4 1/2 for about £14 at the time which was basically ready to use. Recently ended up paying nearly £50 on ebay for a Record 4 and Stanley 5 which are a total mess. Rust everywhere, all the iron surfaces are pitted etc. Spent a couple of days on then trying to sort them out but it’s a slog.
The reconditioned planes are being advertised at £60 – £100 each by the looks of it now!
Also picked up a #78 and a #50 for which have cost nearly £100 between them. I’ve given up looking at routers second hand, regardless of manufacture and condition they are too close to the price of a new Veritas or lie-nielsen imo now even taking into account the availablity problems of each.
Here’s a #71 with 2 hours to go, currently at $90. I wonder how high it will go in the last 10 minutes.
“Not sure if all parts are here.” God that cracks me up. These people try to pose dumb as if to have you believe they are practically giving these things away. They know what they’re doing.
Looks like it has 1 cutter. I don’t even care about the cutters that much anymore–it’s seemingly better to bid for a tool with no cutters and then just make your own or buy them separately if you can find them. There is an antique store I used to frequent and they kept a few vintage tools in the back–some molding planes and such. They had a set of cutters that looked pretty complete for about $50 I think…
Jeez–I just found a single 1/4″ Stanley router plane cutter that the guy is trying to sell for $50. 1 CUTTER! We are makers–Paul has showed us “poor man’s” versions as well as how to create blades with tool steel and oil. Maybe this is a temporary phenomenon that will die down in due time. For now I end up just watching most auctions. One must be disciplined and patient with eBay.
Here’s one you can buy now for under $100 from a moron who doesn’t know the difference between north and south. Maybe worth a purchase for some of us.
Here’s one with a cracked knob for $100 (Buy now).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-STANLEY-NO-71-OPEN-THROAT-ROUTER-PLANE-OCT-29-01/282776761500?hash=item41d6cef49c:g:H0MAAOSwI59aN0WdAnd here’s a Sargent for $100 (buy now).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sargent-No-62-router-plane-excellent-used-condition-1-2-cutter-like-Stanley-71/142595919468?hash=item2133610e6c:g:GIYAAOSwTQtaFxhbI bought my router plane about a year ago–it came with 1 cutter and I think I paid about $100. I was frustrated with making poor man’s routers that didn’t seem to hold their set or weren’t perfectly square. I feel more confident using a machined/manufactured product most of the time.
7 January 2018 at 2:05 am #430096I’d be careful about that Sargent router. That seller’s claim
“cutter like Stanley 71” is not accurate. No Stanley router cutter will fit.Sargents use a style of cutter with several angled notches not compatible with any made by Stanley or modern makers like Veritas. The cutter that comes with the router is likely the only one you’ll ever see.
On the other hand, it is considered more rare, so if you are a collector, have at it.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.7 January 2018 at 8:25 am #430216Stanley No.10 is really ‘Collector’s Only’. And the 10 1/2 speeds things up? If you’re making door-frames all day, you’re not using a hand-plane.
Stanley/Record/Woden 78 Duplex-Rebate-Filletster does the same job (and RB10 at a push).
That’s why Paul’s Tool Cabinet went from the backdrop, to reinforce the message ‘You don’t have to spend a fortune on tools to get started in woodworking’.7 January 2018 at 11:55 am #430269I’m sure Paul is equally aware too of the extortionate prices some of the older items are now commanding, and as @kev32 says, was probably a part of the reason for the changed ‘image’ presented in newer videos. I’ve also noticed that he is more often recommending new items too, presumably aware that actually buying new is becoming cheaper than buying vintage in some areas.
I expect the bubble will burst one day to some extent, there’s far too many of these vintage woodworking tools, even No. 71 routers, around to be commanding ridiculous prices for all that long – at the moment I suspect a certain amount of hoarding is going on by people watching the price increases and hoping it will get even higher before they sell theirs.
It happened a few years ago with a much rarer item I used to collect, antique musical boxes. Prices went through the roof due to hype and also foreign buying, and seemed unstoppable. Yet now prices have crashed far below what they even were ten years ago, and collecting them has become possible once again (not for me, I’ve moved on!).
7 January 2018 at 1:40 pm #430304I only consider current prices for the routers ridiculous. While prices of all the older items have risen, paying even $40-50 for a well-made bench plane that will last you a lifetime is still a good deal in my book. My cut-off point is usually around 50% the value of a new, equal-or-better-quality tool. So, with the routers, it makes much more sense to buy new, unless you’re the type of woodworker who likes to feel superior or brag about using vintage tools. But, like I said, even though eBay prices of, say, the #4 have risen from $10-15 a few years ago to $50 or so today, that is still a great price to pay for the tool you are getting, and not something anyone should be complaining about. These tools were much more expensive for the craftsman who originally bought them. I believe Paul said in a blog entry that his tools cost him HALF of his first year’s wages, so keep that in mind when purchasing any tool today, regardless of if it’s new or new-to-you.
Unlike the common bench planes (Nos. 3, 4, 5,and 6) and the no.78 rabbet & fillister, all of which were commonly used by carpenters back in the day, router planes were never a big seller. They were more of a specialty item, used by cabinetmakers, patternmakers and other “fine” woodworkers and are comparatively scarce. Nowadays it’s mostly amateurs who are using any of these tools. The old carpenters’ tools are abundant and cheap compared to new equivalents (at least in the NE quarter of the USA and most of the UK, for those who can pry themselves away from their computers to get out and look).
IMHO, given their relative scarcity, demand from both collectors and woodworkers and the cost of new router planes, I don’t think that the typical $50-$100 selling prices (not eBay “Buy It Now” prices) for old Stanley or Record routers is unreasonable. It only seems high because vintage carpenters’ tools can be had so cheap.
Dave
- This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Dave Ring.
7 January 2018 at 2:26 pm #430331Not only that, but if you had a router, you typically only had one, whereas with bench planes, you would have had several. The US was built on (comparatively unskilled) 2×4 framing, which is why everyone’s grandfather had the middle bench planes and crosscut D-8s. The US was full of carpenters, not woodworkers.
As mentioned above, outside of eBay (at least in the US and UK) you can still find remarkably cheap CARPENTER’S tools.
[quote quote=430216]Stanley No.10 is really ‘Collector’s Only’. And the 10 1/2 speeds things up? If you’re making door-frames all day, you’re not using a hand-plane.
Stanley/Record/Woden 78 Duplex-Rebate-Filletster does the same job (and RB10 at a push).
That’s why Paul’s Tool Cabinet went from the backdrop, to reinforce the message ‘You don’t have to spend a fortune on tools to get started in woodworking’.[/quote]yes but as an amatuer myself who only uses hand tools, I do need a 10 1/2 for panelling, not interested in machine methods when I work in a garage with no dust extraction, that plane still has value to me, I just don’t like the extremely high prices compared to 12 months ago
7 January 2018 at 5:39 pm #430431A 10 1/2? A No.10 won’t do? A 78 won’t do either?
I sold my No.10. Like most of them out there, it was never used. Looked great on the shelf!
Carriage-Maker’s Planes are still being made. New.Does your panelling NEED a Vintage one? Nonsense. It’s like asking a Car Dealership for a cheap runabout for the missus, maximum £3,000, but only looking at the Vintage Rolls in the corner, and complaining the price is too high.
I see this a lot. People wanting Vintage, As-New, Mint, Boxed, all accessories, at ‘user’ prices.Why do you think Paul didn’t use a 10 1/2 EVER in making a six-foot Tool Cabinet (with Panelling)?
- This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Kevin Salmon.
Wow!
Judging by the number of replys this is an emotive issue! The price of old tools. ‘C White’, I fear that you have inadvertently poked the bear!On the positive side, maybe the high price of quality and specialised hand tools will drive up the incentive for more companies to put some old models back into production. Though the Stanley 151 spokeshave has demonstrated how proďuction of old models can be undermined by cheap knockoffs that give the original pattern a bad name.
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